Ep. 536 w/ Yassir Haouati COO & CoFounder of Brickken
Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the
show today, we have, yes, sir.
Awa, he's the c o o and
Co-founder of Bricken.
Yassir Haouati: the show.
Thank you for the invitation.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, I'm excited
to have you on the show.
I think what you guys are doing at Brick
and is actually really interesting and
innovative and just with everything
that's going on right now in, in the
crypto space, and I'm really kind of
fascinated to get your thoughts and you
talk about the space and, um, but maybe
before we get into all that, let's get
to know you a little bit better and start
Yassir Haouati: off with
where you grew up, sir.
So, uh, Amir, uh, c o o and
co-founder, uh, of Brien.
So, uh, to start, I grew up in Morocco.
I studied, uh, uh, until, uh, what we call
their oi, uh, which is like, Preparatory
classes for engineering schools.
Then, uh, I was accepted in a school
in France called nsam, which is an
engineering school, uh, where I, uh, got
the digital systems engineering degree.
Uh, but, uh, during my studies
I started my, let's call it
digital entrepreneurship journey.
That's, uh, where it's all started.
Kevin Horek: What made you
passionate about engineering at
Yassir Haouati: a young age?
Uh, well, uh, my father, uh, was
uh, a computer science teacher.
Ah, so that influenced, uh, a lot
my, uh, passion to engineering.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
So you were in university and doing,
Your own company or businesses or,
or walk us through, uh, that being an
entrepreneur and, and being in school.
Yassir Haouati: Sure.
Uh, well, in the beginning, uh,
I was looking for, uh, as there
was limited time, uh, as it was,
uh, done ly with the school.
Uh, so I was looking for business models,
uh, that are, uh, easily automated
and, uh, With high profit, but there
was always a high risk with that.
So I started in e-commerce, uh,
doing win, uh, drop shipping.
Uh, that was on 2016.
Uh, Then I was also doing,
uh, mobile development.
Uh, so that was like,
uh, the, the start of it.
Then, uh, I opened my, uh, marketing
agency, uh, back then, uh, and then
had, uh, an experience, uh, co-founding,
uh, a startup in the tourism industry.
And from there, uh, uh, I jumped
into, uh, a co-founding Bricken.
Kevin Horek: Okay, so how did
you come up with the idea for
Brick In and what exactly is.
Yassir Haouati: Alright, uh, so
Bricken is, uh, token Offering
and Management platform.
What does that mean?
Uh, if, uh, for example, a company
wants to raise funds, uh, there is
the possibility that is allowed by the
blockchain technology, uh, to raise funds
by tokenizing the equity of the company.
So in this type, uh, of tokenization,
We, you issue a security token that
represents, uh, a share of the company.
So that opens, uh, the doors for
investors around the world to, uh, invest
in the company, uh, wherever it is.
Uh, but of course, the issuance of
security tokens, uh, is regulated,
uh, but in different ways.
D depending on the geo location.
So, uh, we, we try at brien to cover
like the whole token lifecycle, uh,
for companies, uh, to raise funds,
uh, through, uh, uh, web three and
also manage, uh, the raised funds.
Kevin Horek: before we dive into
that deeper, how is what you just
outlined different than getting.
Obviously the big thing is you
can take capital for, from anybody
on the planet, but what are, what
are the other similarities and
differences between your offering
offering compared to traditionally
raising money from just a regular vc?
Yassir Haouati: Sure.
Uh, well, uh, I, I'll, I'll
start by, uh, the example of
myself, uh, from my experience.
As I was based, uh, in France, uh,
uh, for the studies and after my
studies, uh, keeping the companies
so, uh, I, and wanted to confound,
uh, uh, Bricken, uh, in Spain.
So I had the pain of
waiting until, uh, you get.
Uh, uh, what it's called here,
Nia, which is the foreigner number,
uh, in order to go to the notary,
uh, to sign, uh, paperwork and.
Then become a shareholder and it takes,
uh, uh, weeks, uh, uh, if not months,
uh, in order to invest or, uh, uh, join
a, a company, uh, by getting the equity.
So, uh, we can see here that
using the web three, uh, and the
blockchain technology, you can easily.
Do the whole process in few seconds
by just, uh, well, uh, uh, it, it
depends, uh, can be a few days, but
depending on the Q Y C and uh, a M
l, uh, check that is happening behind
for the regulations, of course.
Kevin Horek: Right.
So walk us through, if I'm a company
and I want to raise money, how do I use.
Brick in and walk me through the
process, and then I want to do it as
if I'm looking to invest in companies
Yassir Haouati: right after that.
Uh, so as, uh, a company, the first
step is, uh, preparing, uh, for the
token offering and the token issue ones.
So there is, there are three,
uh, let's say, uh, parts or
pillars, uh, for the issue ones.
Which are the legal part, the financial
part, and uh, the technology part.
So we cover the technology part, and,
uh, in this phase there, there will
be, uh, the marketing, uh, part because
when, if you win the token and in
order to sell it, you need, uh, solid
marketing strategy, uh, in order to
reach out to investors around the world.
The first step would be designing the
legal framework of the tokenization
in the case of security tokens.
Uh, then preparing the materials
and the strategy, uh, for marketing
and modeling the token omic system.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
Sorry to cut you off.
Does Ricken help with any of that stuff?
All of that, or none of that?
Can you walk us
Yassir Haouati: through that?
Yes, I'm coming to it,
so, uh Okay, no problem.
Keep going then.
Uh, so we created, uh, what we
call an experts ecosystem, uh,
where we have certified experts or
service providers around the world
who are helping, uh, our clients.
So for the company, uh, it lands
on an experts, let's, let's call it
marketplace, uh, to choose, uh, the
service provider that, uh, suits
or fits, uh, uh, its situation.
So it, it goes faster and also, uh,
helps, uh, covering the problem of,
uh, the different regulations, uh,
depending on the share location.
So very cool.
That's the first step,
which is the preparation.
Uh, it takes, uh, a few weeks,
uh, depending, uh, on, uh,
uh, the, the legality in the
country of this organization.
Uh, then, uh, it's, uh, it becomes faster
because then we move to the, uh, d.
The brick and up.
So, uh, you start by issuing the
token, by filling in the information
prepared in the preparation phase.
Uh, and then, but in one click, uh,
you deploy, uh, through our, uh, s.
Smart contract factory, uh, which is, uh,
the, the script that is, uh, deploying
the token on, uh, the public blockchain.
Uh, so we are starting on the Ethereum,
uh, blockchain network, but we are
expanding, uh, uh, by building,
uh, expanding to other networks by
building a token bridging system.
So, got it.
So, uh, once the token is issued,
uh, there is the last part, uh, which
is launching the token offering.
Uh, so we provide, uh, by filling in
just one form, uh, uh, you can set
up the branding of what we call a
token store, which is a mini app that
you can configure and, uh, change,
uh, its branding, uh, to make it
yours and, uh, sell, uh, the token.
Uh, that you issued, and this way
you are raising funds by selling the
equity to investors around the world.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
Okay, so keep us down this path.
So, okay, you, you guys help me along.
And then what happens?
Like, what do I send
investors once they're willing
Yassir Haouati: to invest?
Uh, so from, from the investor side,
uh, It lands, uh, directly, uh, on the
project, uh, that, uh, it, uh, like, uh,
it found, uh, which is the Token Store.
So it's a website with the explanation of
the project, but we also have what we call
brick and launch pad, uh, where all the
tokens, uh, or token offerings that are
deployed through our protocol are listed,
uh, for investors to find and explore.
New invest investment
opportunities around the world.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
So what is K Y c uh, a l m management for,
for people that don't know, maybe, do you
wanna explain those acronyms and then talk
Yassir Haouati: about that?
Uh, so the K Y C stands
for, uh, know Your Customer.
Uh, so it's, uh, regulation.
That is, uh, obliged, uh, uh, to us, uh,
in order or, and also to our clients with
their investors, uh, to uh, like, uh, uh,
verify the identity, uh, of the investors.
So, As you are selling equity, which is
a security, uh, a real world security,
uh, you need to know who is the
shareholder, for example of your company.
Uh, you need to have all
the information about it.
It's like when you go to the notary
and they ask you for your identity
card, for example, or your passport.
Uh, uh, the K YC is, uh, let's say
automating, uh, the verification
of the identity of the holders.
Uh Ah-huh uh, and the AML stands
for, uh, anti-money laundering.
Uh, so it's, uh, check that
is done, uh, on the persons.
Uh, after they do, they do the, the Q Y C
in order to see if they are, uh, involved
in any, uh, money laundering activities.
Kevin Horek: Got you.
So if I am then looking to, well, I
guess no, sorry, before I ask that,
is there a minimum or a maximum I can
invest in a company or walk us through
Yassir Haouati: that?
Uh, well, uh, it depends on,
uh, the company, uh, that is
asking for the fundraising.
They are the ones, uh, setting
up, uh, all the parameters of, uh,
their token offerings so they can,
uh, like set the minimum investment
they want, uh, uh, in their company.
Like, it's like in traditional, uh,
processes or, uh, let's say, uh, the
ones we have now, uh, which is, uh, uh,
like, uh, Uh, I dunno how to say it,
but, uh, I hope you see what I mean.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Yeah, that, that, I guess it's
not really any different than
just doing it in the traditional
Yassir Haouati: route, right?
Kevin Horek: Okay, perfect.
Um, so I, I'm curious to dive
a little bit deeper into.
I've raised money, I'm using the platform.
How do I use it with my startup and my
investors kind of on a monthly, quarterly,
yearly basis, like walk us through using
the platform on an ongoing basis, or do I
Yassir Haouati: even need to, mm-hmm.
So, uh, the first part is to issue
the token and raise the funds.
Uh, uh, so after that, you
will have to manage, uh, your,
uh, shareholders in this case.
Uh, if, uh, you issued,
uh, uh, equity token.
Uh, so, uh, you need to have, uh, all
the information in, uh, one place.
So as it's deployed in
the blockchain network.
Uh, so our.
That is, uh, getting or visual
visualizing, uh, the data on chain
data directly, uh, on the platform.
So you can keep track, uh,
of your, uh, token holders.
Uh, then you can manage the token
treasury because when you issue, uh,
uh, a token, uh, with a certain supply,
You're gonna define, depending, uh,
on the allocation, how you're gonna
distribute the, the whole supply.
So you need to keep track of, uh, each
vertical in your, uh, token allocation.
You need to keep track of, uh, uh, like.
Uh, uh, the, the circulating
supply, for example.
Uh, if, uh, you have for example, uh,
a part, uh, or a bag for the airdrops,
you need to keep track of it, et cetera.
So, uh, we allow, uh, to manage, uh,
the, uh, the, the whole process, uh, for
token, uh, treasury, uh, and also, uh,
automating, uh, what we call corporate
actions like for example, You can
automate sending the dividends, uh, to the
investors who invested in your company.
And then there is also the
management, uh, uh, lastly, uh,
the management of the raised funds.
So when you sell the token, you
are receiving, uh, uh, uh, funds
either in, uh, uh, crypto or fiat.
Uh, so you need to manage it, uh, too.
So we offer, uh, the tools, uh, uh, to
do that, uh, using, uh, the defi te.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
So I want to talk about the
state of, well, I wouldn't say so
much blockchain cuz I, I think.
, it's, you know, kind of a well-established
thing and people are using it and not
using it depending on their needs.
But we all know kind of the
crypto doom and gloom that's
happening in the industry.
And I, I'll preface this
with, I own some crypto.
Personally, I don't think like, sure,
it's obviously going through a rough
patch right now, or some companies in this
space are going through a rough patch.
But what's your take on the state of the
industry and, and kind of what's happened
Yassir Haouati: recently?
Uh, well, uh, in my opinion,
there are, uh, many factors, uh,
that are generating, uh, the, the
current situation o of the market.
But I would say, uh, lately, uh, uh,
there are many, uh, events happening,
uh, which is in my opinion good, uh, for
the industry, uh, as, uh, let's say it's
cleaning the industry from, uh, uh, the.
The misused, uh, uh, technologies,
uh, like for example, uh, uh, we
can mention mim coins, for example.
Uh, or tokens with no utility in general.
So it's kind of, uh, clean in the industry
to live only, uh, let's say builders.
Or real builders, uh, in the industry, uh,
for the industry to grow in good terms.
Uh, so, uh, for example, we can also
mention, uh, the event that happen,
uh, with ftx, uh, which affecting,
which is affecting the, uh, whole
centralized exchanges, uh, market, uh,
which is also, uh, kind of pushing.
Uh, the investors in, uh, that market
or gen in generally, uh, the crypto
investors, uh, to think of moving
from decentralized, uh, exchanges
to more of the decentralization.
So it helps, uh, let's say the
mass adoption of, uh, defi or,
uh, Decentralized wallets or, uh,
decentralization in general, uh,
which is also good for the industry.
Kevin Horek: No, I agree with you.
I, I think this kind of cleansing, as
you put like has happened in pretty
much every other industry that's been
on the internet and probably even.
Brick and mortar kind of industry.
So this happens all the time.
And I just, crypto's kind of the n
one of the newer ones that, you know,
had a lot of buzz a year or two ago.
And yes, I'm not going to deny, like a lot
of people lost a ton of money and I'm not
trying to downplay that, but I, I think
just, this happens all the time, right?
And it's just getting a lot of coverage,
um, because there's been some kind of big
players that, you know, sadly kind of.
We're, well, we can, it's who
knows what actually happened.
But it seems like coming out
like the, that, you know, they
were not doing proper things.
Some of these companies that went down
Yassir Haouati: recently, right.
Uh, well, uh, it's always, uh,
decisions that are made there.
Uh, and, uh, you cannot, uh, let's say
judge, uh, decisions in entrepreneurship
in general as, uh, sometimes, uh,
you, for example, have to make
many decisions, uh, at, at a time.
So you need to decrease the risk by,
uh, avoiding the decision fatigue.
So you need to.
Make a decision fast for each situation
in order to survive that period.
And that can be, uh, the, the
problem, uh, that kills many
companies, even, uh, the big ones.
Uh, so we cannot explain, uh, what
was the, uh, reasoning behind, uh,
the decisions that were made there.
Yeah, that's, uh, what we, what
we can, uh, say like we can,
we cannot judge a de a decision
without knowing all the information.
That's still just my personal opinion.
Kevin Horek: No, I hundred
percent agree with you.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
So I'm curious to dive a little bit
deeper into, I, I think a lot of
people maybe don't know exactly what.
Kind of blockchain web three
and even maybe what crypto is.
Do you maybe wanna just explain
those just so people understand
and maybe have some context
Yassir Haouati: to what
we're talking about?
Uh, well, uh, the, the blockchain,
uh, technology, uh, Uh, uh, is,
uh, to simplify, uh, let's say,
uh, uh, distributed, uh, database,
uh, where the data, uh, or, uh, is
not stored in only, uh, one place.
So you avoid, uh, one point of failure.
Uh, so you have the data distributed on.
Different centers and, uh, each one of
them is, uh, validating if everything
is the same in all the centers.
So, uh, You cannot change, uh, things
already, uh, done on the blockchain
because then you have to change in all
the points that are in that network.
So that's like just a quick and simple,
uh, explanation that I would, uh,
personally give to, uh, blockchain.
Uh, but that, uh, also shows that.
It's, it's based on the decentralization,
uh, uh, in, or let's say globally.
So, uh, for me, uh, that's what made me,
uh, admire, let's say, uh, the blockchain
technology as, uh, I see that it's.
A technology that is changing, uh,
how humanity thinks, uh, which was
generally, uh, centralizing everything
instead of decentralizing it.
Kevin Horek: Interesting.
And then what's your take on web three?
Yassir Haouati: what does it mean?
Uh, well, uh, Web two.
Uh, let, let's start with, uh, web one,
uh, is, uh, when, uh, let's say in the
beginning, uh, of the internet, uh, was
like static websites or web pages, uh,
where you cannot interact as a user.
So that was called Web One.
Web two, uh, is, uh, when, uh, the, let's
say backend part entered, or the databases
entered and the interactions, uh, entered.
So, uh, in web two, uh, you can
say the applications where you can,
for example, create an account,
uh, log in to your account, uh,
two things inside the application.
Uh, so that's called web, uh, two.
Web three, uh, is, uh, web two plus,
uh, the ownership, uh, of, uh, things.
So now, uh, in, in web three, you can,
uh, uh, like interact, uh, uh, with,
uh, uh, the, the applications, but
also, uh, own, uh, things with the proof
that is deployed, uh, in the network.
Or when I say deployed on the network,
uh, to simplify it, I would say that is
distributed, uh, over all the centers,
uh, or data centers in the network.
So it's like you certify
that you own, uh, something.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
So I'm, I'm curious, I want to
dive a little bit back into you.
You covered the expert ecosystem.
I want to dive a little bit deeper into
what types of, you quickly covered it,
but I, I think it's super, I important
and it's actually super helpful for.
people raising money or just
doing a startup in general.
So do you want to talk a little bit
deeper into the type of experts and, and
what people can actually get from your
Yassir Haouati: ecosystem?
Uh, so in, in the ecosystem there
are, uh, different verticals.
Uh, there is the legal, uh, vertical
where we have service providers, uh, or
let's say law firms, uh, who are, uh,
providing the services, uh, of designing
the legal framework of the tokenization.
So the clients, uh, do
not have to know, uh, or.
To do anything, but they hire a law
firm that has experience and, uh,
that will, uh, take care of that.
For example, designing the legal
framework for the tokenization.
Then we have, for example, marketing
where you find service providers in the
marketing, uh, field or in web three
marketing field, which is needed here.
Uh, so it's more, uh, about community
building, uh, about media buying.
So you find agencies, uh, that.
The, the companies on, uh, web, web
three marketing strategies and, uh,
web three, uh, let's say marketing
channels, uh, that they're gonna use.
Uh, so instead of, uh, in
this case, losing money in.
Paid media, for example, the traditional
one, and they don't reach, uh,
the persona that is needed there.
Uh, then it's better to hire a
marketing service provider who gonna
take care of it and help you, uh,
succeed, uh, your fundraising round.
Uh, uh, for example, there is, uh,
also the, uh, financial, uh, expert.
Who can help you design the token
economy, uh, model of, uh, your token.
So for example, uh, what is
the utility of the token, uh,
the total supply of the token?
What's, what's, what's gonna be the soft
cap, uh, which is the minimum that that
is, uh, uh, wanted, uh, uh, to be, for
example, raised in the case of, of a token
offering or the hard cap, uh, et cetera.
You also find instead of knowing all
these things, uh, you can find experts
in these fields, uh, who can do it for
you and help you move faster, uh, and
uh, in more, uh, a more efficient way.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
So how do you man or monetize
Yassir Haouati: bricken?
Uh, we have, uh, an issuance fee,
uh, which is, uh, all done through
our, uh, utility token, B k n.
Uh, so, uh, the clients use our
protocol need to, uh, pay with
B K N, uh, an issuance fee.
And then, uh, there is.
Only a fee, that's how we call it, which
means, uh, we only get paid, uh, when
you succeed your, uh, token offering,
uh, which is, uh, a commission that
we take from the, uh, funds raised,
uh, and, uh, monthly subscription, uh,
for, uh, the management of the token.
Our, uh, business model.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
And what is that, like, what's the
percentage and what's my, uh, monthly fee?
Or does it really depend on
Yassir Haouati: how much I raise?
Well, uh, that's, uh, depending,
uh, on, uh, the cases.
Uh, as you know, uh, but, uh, if,
uh, someone is interested, uh, you
can contact our sales team through
our website and they're gonna guide
you through, uh, all the information,
uh, depending on your situation.
Kevin Horek: Got it.
And is there a minimum or kind of maximum
amount of money it can raise on the
Yassir Haouati: platform?
Uh, well, it's all dependent on,
uh, the legality on the, from a
technical perspective, there is,
uh, no minimum and no maximum.
But from a legal perspective, uh, it's
dependent on where your, your company
is based and it's, uh, regulations.
Kevin Horek: That makes some sense.
So I, I'm curious, do you have any
other thoughts or predictions on.
Where the space is, is kind of headed,
whether from a blockchain, crypto
perspective or just kind of a web 3.0,
uh, perspective, because you guys are
very kind of on the cutting edge of
this stuff, and I'm curious to get your
thoughts or, or any predictions you have.
Yassir Haouati: Uh, well, uh, in my
opinion, obviously in the long term, uh,
obviously we're gonna see a huge growth
and fast growth of the industry as, uh,
we've seen in the past years in the, uh,
Middle term, I would say it's the same.
Uh, but in the short term, I would say,
uh, in the industry we are or, uh, the,
the stakeholders of, uh, the ecosystem are
still, uh, cleaning and being qualified.
So, uh, it's uh, Stakeholders are now
getting, let's say, educated in order
to understand, uh, the technology in
a better way and use it the right way.
Uh, so I would say in the short term,
uh, we cannot say, uh, 100%, but it's
a higher probability in my opinion, uh,
that it's, uh, still gonna be cleaning.
Kevin Horek: Right.
So I'm, I'm curious.
what advice do you give to people that
are looking to raise money, you know,
with brick and, and you kind of covered
it earlier, but I think people don't
realize how hard it can be and how
much time and effort you need to put
into marketing and kind of research.
Do, do you want to talk about some
advice you would give people to,
to using the platform and, and
just even raising money in general?
Yassir Haouati: Well,
uh, yes, uh, as well.
My, my opinion is, uh, uh, it, it's
always, uh, better to, uh, do it, uh,
like as early as possible, uh, before,
uh, things in the industry with, uh,
regulation can be more complicated.
So, uh, as you know, it's always, uh,
better, uh, to do with, uh, uh, like.
Uh, so that's how, uh, we
want to, uh, execute too.
Uh, so we are, uh, focusing
a lot on the user experience.
And I would say, uh, uh, my, my advice
would be, uh, Just follow, uh, the steps
and, uh, keep things compliant, uh, in
order to, uh, uh, be more transparent,
uh, which is the, uh, first value of,
uh, blockchain technology, for example.
Kevin Horek: I, I think
that's really good advice.
So I'm curious.
Because sometimes startups can take,
you know, 3, 5, 10, maybe plus years
to maybe i p o or, or get sold.
How, how do I use brick in if
I want to i p o or get sold?
Like is the process the same different?
Do you wanna walk us
Yassir Haouati: through that?
Uh, well, uh, uh, in, in Britain,
the the goal is, uh, to issue the
token, uh, that represents the shares.
So if you want to sell, uh, your
token, uh, you, you can sell it
in a peer-to-peer, for example.
So, okay, that can be done in,
uh, The, the traditional way, uh,
only the transaction gonna be, uh,
through the blockchain, uh, networks.
Uh, but, uh, yeah, I think, uh, uh, it,
it's quite the same as, uh, also there
can be the security token, uh, exchanges
or, uh, uh, liquidity posts where, uh,
you can still sell your tokens there.
So it depends on.
How the tokenization is done.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
No, that makes sense.
So we're, we're kind of coming to the end
of the show, but is there anything else
or advice that you would wanna mention to
Yassir Haouati: close out the show?
Uh, well, uh, always,
uh, do your own research.
Uh, that would be the best
advice in the industry.
So there is nothing best or better,
uh, than, uh, looking for things or
even words that we don't understand.
Uh, just Googling it and learning
every day, at least one thing.
Uh, I, I think that would be the,
the best advice to give in the
industry from my perspective.
Kevin Horek: No, I, I think
that makes a lot of sense.
So how about we close the show with
mentioning where people can get more
information about brick in the community
and any other links you wanna mention?
Yassir Haouati: Uh, sure.
Uh, uh, by, uh, Googling bran, uh, or, uh,
just going to our website, uh, bran.com.
Uh, we have, uh, everything, uh,
explained there, uh, all the links needed.
Uh, so yeah, just visit our
websites and learn more.
Kevin Horek: man.
Well, I really appreciate you
taking the time and your day to
be on the show, and I look forward
to keeping in touch with you and
Yassir Haouati: I've witnessed your.
Thank you very much, Kevin.
Nice to meet you.
Kevin Horek: you as well, man.
Have a good rest of your day.