Building The Future Show - Radio / TV / Podcast

Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the show.

Today we have Lily Eva Bartha.

She's the founder and c e o of Jane.

Lily, welcome to the show.

Lili Eva Bartha: Hi everybody.

Hi Kevin.

Thanks for having me on the show.

It's really exciting.

Kevin Horek: Yeah, I'm excited
to have you on the show.

I, I think what you guys are doing
is really innovative, but before

we get into all that, let's get
to know you a little bit better

and start off with where you grew

Lili Eva Bartha: up.

Absolutely.

Um, so I'm from Hungary, which
might be surprising because most

people find my accent quite cryptic.

Um, there's definitely a mixture in there.

Um, so I come from Hungary
and I grew up in Hungary.

Um, I had a quite, uh, general upbringing.

My parents are a bit
obsessed about science.

So, uh, my father was a physicist and
my brother is a mathematician, so it

was quite fairly straightforward that
I'm gonna be a mathematician too.

So that's basically my childhood.

I spent it in math camps and special
math classes and math competitions.

So it's fairly a mathematical
oriented upbringing for sure.

Kevin Horek: Interesting.

And that must play into
what you're, you're doing

Lili Eva Bartha: today.

Oh, 100%.

There's a, there's a lot, lot of
things that kind of took me around

different topics, but at the end of
the day, science is always there.

It's, uh, the basics of everything.

And I find mathematics as a beautiful,
like, descriptive language, uh, to, to

understand what's happening in nature.

So possessing knowledge is, is
really essentially my career

today that I'm a mathematician.

Very

Kevin Horek: cool.

So walk us through your
university because.

You've been through a lot of it.

Lili Eva Bartha: Oh yeah.

I'm, uh, some people think I'm
a bit addicted to studying.

That might be true actually.

I think it's one of the
funniest things to do.

Like, uh, you know, it's amazing to spend
time just learning, absorbing knowledge.

Um, so I did a Bachelor of Master
in Applied Mathematics in Hungary,

and that was all wonderful
and, and truly, truly great.

But fun fact, um, I
bought a sewing machine.

The last years in my Masters, um,
simply because I run out of outfits

to wear, and that's not a show.

I used to buy lots of different
outfits always from secondhand.

That's, that's something I'm
really, um, like persistent

on, always from secondhand.

But yes, still I did run out of outfits.

So I bought a sewing machine
without having any knowledge

on how to make anything.

I bought some fabrics I
found in a basement store.

It turns out they were waterproof
table cloth, but that didn't stop me.

And I made some cocktail dresses
and I did go out in them and people

started asking what I got them from,
and I was like, well, I just made it.

Today And it was, it was pretty funny
because that experience slowly made me

realize that I'm actually really missing
something to do with my hands, something

creative, hands-on, physical, tangible.

And then that's what happens in my head.

I decided to become a fashion designer.

Um, and instead of doing a PhD in
science, I uh, moved to Denmark

and I started studying fashion.

Kevin Horek: Okay.

Fascinating.

So walk us through the rest of your
education and then let's dive into your

career up until what you're doing today.

Lili Eva Bartha: Absolutely.

So this is kind of where the fun
starts because until that point that

I moved to Denmark, it was really just
a straightforward, you know, you're

studying science, you are doing science,
and I really, really did enjoy it.

But then suddenly you
announced to your family.

Okay.

Now I'm going to Denmark and
I'm, I'm gonna study fashion.

And they're like, why would you do that?

So, um, I moved to Denmark.

I entered a really, really
interesting college.

Um, I remember the first time I
heard about studying in Denmark.

They were advertising it with Copenhagen.

And of course Copenhagen is incredible.

Um, but it turns out this school
was everywhere but Copenhagen.

It was in the middle of a peninsula
called Jutland, and it's literally

in the middle of nowhere, which is
actually really interesting because.

It kind of made me four years of an
incredible exploration time, time in,

in the middle of like no distraction,
no metropolitan cities, just me and

the sheep because there were lots
of sheep around the school, in the

backyard, in the garden, on the streets.

And then you had this incredible facility.

You had all the equipments there.

So I actually learned a lot and
I became a really kind of, A

multi-skilled fashion designer.

I think during those years I've also
interned and worked at quite a few

designers like Zu, Manish, Aurora, and
it was a really, really interesting time.

Once I finished my Bachelor, um, I
decided that, uh, I'm gonna study

masters because I cannot stop it.

I just need to learn more.

I need to understand
more about the industry.

So then I moved to London and
I started studying at the Royal

College of Art on the fashion course.

And it was a really interesting wake
up call because, um, you know, as time

progressed and I'm, the more and more
I became aware of the implications of

the fashion industry from a societal
and environmental perspective, the

more I understood that actually what
I'm doing is not what I would like to

contribute to the system because I've
been doing physical collections, I've

been producing stuff, and it was actually
a beautiful way of expressing myself

and sharing my stories with others.

They could literally wear my emotions and
my feelings, but I suddenly realized that

that's not what the word needs right now.

The word needs, solutions and
alternatives, innovation to

reduce the negative impact
because fashion is the second most

pollutive industry in the world.

So a very interesting point came in my
career because I was just about to enter

the last year of my second masters, and
then I was about to leave the industry.

I was like, I need to go back to science.

This is not what I signed up for.

And the very vice person told me
who's actually the course leader,

lovely, lovely, Zoe broach.

She told me that if I leave, I
would just be like anyone else

who left and didn't give a chance.

You know, to kind of change the
system or, or re reappropriate

how you, how you perceive fashion.

Um, but if I stay, I have freedom.

Endless amounts of freedom to
really think about what fashion

could be, if it could be anything.

So I decided to stay.

I finished my master's and during
that time I became a digital

expert, which is quite a bold.

Statement to say, but again, I love
learning and YouTube is my best friend.

So in a matter of months, I
created my first ever virtual

reality project in 2019.

Then it, we went into lockdown and it was
a very interesting experience of suddenly

ending up in your living room with
your sewing machine, with your fabrics.

And not really knowing what
to do to finish your course.

So I had this little laptop, nothing,
uh, not a gaming laptop, not a

strong laptop, but yet I decided
to work on it for three months.

And you know, I sometimes had
to render for days and weeks on

that tiny laptop just to get some
kind of digital video out of it.

But it was a very interesting
experience because during that

time, The pandemic really affected
a lot of different stakeholders in

the fashion industry and obviously
worldwide, very many other industries.

So there was a lot of, lot of demand on,
uh, having digital support and assistance

from designers like me or studios.

Um, who know how to digitize things.

Lots of companies were struggling
to not just manufacture their

products, but even, uh, promote it
or showcase the latest collections.

So during those times in 2020 and
2021, it was really interesting to get

involved with lots of different brands,
stakeholders, academia and designers,

and help them, um, with my digital
skills, um, to kind of stay up to date

to be able to maintain their business.

And it also gave me a great opportunity to
understand how they see the digital space

and what digital fashion could really be.

It started off as a really interesting,
uh, tool, which is part of Industry 4.0.

It's a, it's a product of
automation and digitization.

You know, technological advancements
enable us to use CAD design in many

different ways, and, uh, digital
fashion as a modeling tool is a great.

Create alternative to eliminate certain
amounts of sampling in a physical supply

chain show, different kind of product
variations without needing to make them.

So the supply chain part of
that digital fashion application

was really interesting.

And throughout those
years, I created a studio.

And with the studio, I did a lot
of, lot of different projects,

but I never stop at one thing.

Digital fashion is really interesting,
but the tools and the skills are what

really, really kind of intrigue me.

So I started working a lot
with virtual reality, augmented

reality, and gaming genes.

And I wa uh, did a lot of
immersive projects, installations,

even artist residencies.

I started researching at a couple of
universities and I also did lecturing.

So in the last couple of years, I
managed to experience a really wide

range of kind of career opportunities
and they all really helped me and

informed me to kind of, um, identify
what is the actual contribution I want

to give to the fashion industry and
the creative industries at large today.

Kevin Horek: Fascinating.

Okay, so you have this idea for
this digital fashion app, but.

And allow people to create their own.

But how did you actually decide to go
for it and start building it like you

built the first version or, or walk us
through the early, um, stages of gene.

Lili Eva Bartha: Absolutely.

It's a really interesting
story because I never meant it

to happen in the way it did.

Um, it all started with one
of the projects during the

period I just described.

Um, I was the first ever virtual
residence, or actually that

first ever digital residence.

In a virtual time, in pandemic time,
so everything digital and virtual

and online at, um, the University
of Applied Sciences in Amsterdam.

And during that time, in end of 2020 and
2021, um, they gave me a couple of months.

Um, to do whatever I want really, which
is a beautiful perk of artist residencies.

Like, imagine you wake up and you can
let you do obviously with your time

and skills and the resources they
provide you with, uh, anything you

want is such a liberating experience.

I'm pretty sure I will never experience
it again, but if anyone who's listening,

you know, is an artist or has done artist
reside, Is, uh, please keep it up because

it's, it's an amazing opportunity.

So in that residency, um, I started
developing this idea of how to

break down what digital fashion or
just digital self-expression is.

Who are we in the digital?

And how can it be a social
and shared experience?

And I started developing this idea of
a fashion game where you are able to

design with someone back and forth.

And that kind of evolved into
more of an immersive experience

and universe around creation.

In vr I developed a virtual, uh,
reality project called Beyond Vision.

It has.

Seven Parla universes all built in vr.

And you could design outfits
without any technical knowledge,

but with really fun things.

For example, you could grow virtual
outfits with bi-digital algorithms,

or you could train them in real time
with interactive machine learning.

So for example, if you had a custom
bodily movement, your VR headset

kind of recorded through body
tracking and it triggered certain

customized reactions from the outfits.

It was a very experimental project.

Uh, it was very fun as well.

And because it was an academic kind of
collaboration, I got to user test it.

So the university provided me with
quite a lot of students and uh, academic

professors, and that's the first time
anyone ever told me, quite frankly.

Please make this into a
product because it's fun.

And when we are doing outfits and
fashion in the digital, the software

currently, while it's really powerful
and incredible, it's very complicated

and it's not what we are used to.

Because if you think about fashion
or pattern design, we grew up with.

Paper, scissors and pen in our hands.

And then suddenly someone puts you
in front of a screen, a 2D screen,

and then you see an overwhelming
amount of UI and interactions.

And if you are a, you know, a UI expert,
Kevin, then you must know that while

um, you can design interface as well.

If people are really new to it and
they have no technical skills, it's

a really steep learning curve, hun.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

So the feedback, yeah, um, the feedback
from the, the students was really

interesting and it kind of reminded me
of my experience when I first opened

CLO 3d, which is the industry standard
fashion software to make outfits.

It was very confusing for me and
it almost stopped me from exploring

the digital, so that kicked me off
on the journey and I kind of played

with this idea for a long, long time.

Okay, so obviously this is not gonna be,
uh, an abstract experiment via project.

What could it be?

I work a lot with body tracking, and
I did a lot of inverse kinematics,

which means that if you're controlling.

Or if you're holding your
controllers in vr, that kind of

informs your whole of avatar.

That's like, let's say real size
in VR on how you are moving.

So translating your physical body in the
virtual space was really important for

me, and I was starting to think about.

How then the human factor can
be involved in this and how this

can be eventually, um, a product.

So I started developing an
application where you could design

in VR and then you could wear it
in AR with a mobile application.

It was very early days for, uh,
body tracking in 2020 and 2019.

So I was using arki from Apple.

And the tracking experience, I must
admit, wasn't really accurate or good at

all, but it was an interesting concept.

And you know, I went through quite a
few iterations, but I think one of the

most important kind of, um, experiences
for me that really made me aware of what

is it that this should be was teaching.

I'm a very dedicated lecturer.

I love my students and I'm in contact with
quite a few universities around the world.

Many of them are in London,
and uh, I teach a lot.

I teach immersive experience, design,
digital fashion, um, new media.

And you know, every time I talk
to the students about how to make

digital content, how easy it could
be, I can see their pain points.

They are really, really missing tools
that enable them to quickly prototype

something without having to, you know, be
on a professional level with 3D modeling.

And I was so lucky to get all the feedback
from these actual potential users.

They are the ones who informed me,
okay, you should actually make a

really accessible, very playful
and very intuitive platform where I

can simply just design outfits and.

You know, we could discuss
how much freedom does this

platform really give users.

But, uh, just to quickly answer your
question, it was really the kind of

one-on-one engagement with my students,
with the user testers and people started

coming to me saying, please Lil make a
software that can enable me to explore

digital fashion, but not in that stressful
way that currently I'm encountering if

I open the industry standard software.

Kevin Horek: Fascinating.

Okay, so walk us through how the
platforms evolved to what it is today.

Lili Eva Bartha: Yes.

Another really, really exciting,
sorry, to be fair, everything is

super exciting for me these days.

So if you ask me about the
weather, that's the only thing

that's not exciting in London.

Um, but actually, um, you know, from
the moment of, okay, this is going

to be a platform and people should
be easily accessing it, they should

be using it in a very intuitive and
seamless way, and it should provide.

Incredible freedom.

Well, that's a very ambitious plan
and it doesn't just happen like that.

It's a lot of trial and error.

So, um, I went into a couple
of accelerators and incubators,

um, in 2021 and 2022, and it
was really interesting to.

Understand.

Okay.

You, you can have a great idea.

Um, you can have a great prototype,
which I had because I've built from my,

uh, artist residency project, I built
an actual virtual related product.

Uh, looking back at it, I'm sure one day
I'm gonna exhibit it somewhere because

it's obviously like it's built by me.

It works, it proves the concept, but it's,
uh, very far from a commercial product.

And I went into fundraising.

I built a pitch deck.

Which was really interesting because
I love this about entrepreneurship.

Nobody can prepare you
to be an entrepreneur.

You can go to incubators, you
can learn courses, but actually

it all happens on the run.

Like, um, how to make an
investment ready pitch deck.

Uh, what is actually the business
idea behind your concept?

How will this be profitable and why
should people invest in you if you

have never built a company before?

So looking back at that time,
it was really interesting how,

you know, Trial and error.

Trial and error took me through a
lot of iterations and while, uh, I

must admit, I think one of the best
guests I have right now as the founder

is actually presentation making.

If you can make a good presentation,
you can tell any story, you can

persuade anyone about anything,
sometimes even without a product.

So, My presentations, uh, you know,
evolved from, yeah, this should be

a system of 10 different features
and we should do a whole like

framework around this and that it
distilled down into one single thing.

Let's make a platform where
people can unlock templates.

Customize them to a really, really big
kind of extent, and then give them use

cases, enable them to shoot videos, uh,
enable them to wear the outfits in other

platforms and eventually enable them to
monetize on their creation by trading.

So that's basically what general is today.

But the journey was quite,
uh, an interesting one.

I went into fundraising, uh, last year.

And it was just the right time.

The markets were still quite
fine and uh, I actually closed

a very successful pre-seed round
with roughly 800,000 pounds.

Oh, congrat.

Just, it was, it was a, it was
a wonderful moment when, when I

got that overwhelming interest.

The funny thing was, I remember I met
wonderful investors in like hotel lobbies

or, or on Zoom, and I was proudly showing
them my VR product that I have built.

By myself, you know, I'm
not a developer of sorts.

And um, now looking back, I know
that they were not investing in

that proof of concept VR project.

They were investing in me,
they were investing in my

dedication and in my passion.

And I think that's quite beautiful because
I often question should I be a founder?

Like who, who told me I'm a good founder?

But when people believe in my
dedication that I get really inspired.

Because that's the best thing I can do.

I can be passionate, I can
be committed to my goal.

And if you remember, my whole point of
staying in fashion was to reinvent how

I see fashion, what fashion is for me,
and how I can make the system better.

In any way possible.

So today, that's what really keeps
me going because I know that I'm

doing something that could be
eventually an alternative, maybe

one day to physical consumption.

It could maybe help reduce
overproduction or over consumption.

It could help people to understand
what fashion really is for them,

because I think fashion is a
beautiful tool for self-expression.

There are many other tools
to express who you are.

Not just fashion, but when
we are in the digital space.

You are becoming a bit more limited and
the platforms under tools really kind

of define how you can express yourself.

And we are really visual people.

So fashion in the digital,
whatever that is, is actually

sometimes really important.

So self-expression through,
you know, for example, outfits.

Simple as that.

People do want to engage with it
because we naturally want to express.

Our personality on all platforms.

So today it's really exciting
to see that how kind of this

like mindset is wide spreading.

I'm really hoping that in a couple of
years it'll be very kind of general

to, to want to express yourself through
digital outfits in the digital space.

And that's where general.

Our platform is kind of hopefully
paving the way towards something

where everyone can do it themselves.

So we kind of give control to the user.

We give them freedom so they can truly
decide who they want to be and how

they want to kind of be perceived.

Kevin Horek: Interesting.

Well, the other thing too is even just.

Obviously as we're becoming avatars
online or even just in digital

profile photos that are just,
you know, simple one-dimensional

graphics, being able to add our own,
almost like digital fashions on top.

And I You have that right
on your homepage, right?

Like, like where your creations
and ar, but, and on your avatars.

But you could even just do it in,
in your social profiles, right?

Like, which is interesting.

Oh, absolutely.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Lili Eva Bartha: Yeah, absolutely.

It, it's uh, anywhere where it's visual
it and it, if it makes sense and if

someone feels like with that they
can get closer to what they want to

express, then we are there to help.

We are working on all solutions possible.

Kevin Horek: No, very cool.

So I want to dive a little bit
deeper into actually using the

software I was playing with it.

And, uh, like to me it's intuitive
just because I've been using

similar software for decades.

Right.

But I'm curious, how do you explain
it to somebody that's maybe never

used a design tool before and,
and what's the feedback been?

I.

So far on actually being able
to build and create some of this

Lili Eva Bartha: stuff.

Oh, that's a great question.

I, it is so clear.

You have a ux UI background.

Love it.

Um, okay.

Very, very valid point because
one of our biggest unique selling

points, or at least I hope it is,
is that we offer an easy, intuitive

and accessible creation experience.

So obviously, Is that true?

That's a big question.

So far, so good.

So how we are doing this is
actually really interesting.

We built our alpha
version, um, last December.

Okay.

And then we made a closed testing,
kind of invite only testing.

So that was 2022, December
and January this year.

Um, and then we started
iterating from that.

So we got to like some basics and then
we started working from the feedback.

So, Just to give a bit more insight
on how we got to even the basics.

Um, I work in roughly 10 to
15 different 3D software.

Uh, I tried even more so.

And because you also understand this
many software works in similar ways.

Yeah.

In terms of how you navigating
the 3D word, um, how you want to

communicate information for the user.

What is the application for
most of the 3D modeling tools?

Are all about what you
are going to create.

So their function is to be almost
invisible and super easy to use.

Um, well, super easy to use.

Talking about Blender.

If you know how to use Blender, that's
wonderful, but super easy to use.

I could question that, that's fair.

But everyone, everyone says,
you know, It's okay because

it's a professional tool.

Well, it's okay if it's a professional
tool, but if you look at the user

generated content, uh, kind of, um,
content creation, not revolution, but

how it's rising, how it's becoming
more and more, um, kind of, uh,

common and how the younger generation
really wants to take part in it.

Then I started to question, okay, what
should a creation to look like them?

Does it need to be that complicated?

Does it need to give
you that much control?

Or can we actually make
something more friendly?

Something that creates a more
impactful result with less effort,

less technical learning curve.

So the principles of Gen rely on how
to simplify not just the UI itself,

but the user experience itself.

What is it?

That you want to do with an outfit?

What is it that will make it yours and
how can we translate it into features?

So we started like breaking it
down to, okay, we have an outfit.

You might wanna change the silhouette,
you might wanna have short sleeve,

long sleeve, something like that.

So even today we have some sample
templates where you can do that.

And of course we will continue
to expand on this like modular

block-based, uh, editing solution.

Um, And then the second part is the
fabrics, because it's all about that.

So, um, it's very interesting to observe
that many people look for familiar things.

They want to understand what they
see because they cannot touch it.

So having hyper-realistic fabrics is
actually really interestingly key.

For some people they see it as replication
of reality and they don't see the value in

it, and for some people that's the volume.

So we've recently integrated
actually substance materials.

So we are using full on pbr, so physics
based rendering system and eventually

we will open it up for anyone.

So you could take your substance materials
that you use anywhere else, and then you

bring it to us and it they look the same.

The thing, the trick about this
kind of, um, it's part of the

interoperability strategy, the tricky
part is that actually general users

have no clue what substance is.

So, you know, it's, it's, it's gonna
be always addressing a bit more niche

audience, but general audiences.

Don't have to know what substance is.

What they see is hyper realistic,
super high quality materials,

and that's good enough for us.

The other interesting part of
our fabrics is that we have these

incredibly well-crafted digital
only materials that enable players

to engage with digital fabrics that
they could never imagine before,

and they cannot exist in real life.

We are using UV animations,
vers displacement, all kinds

of generative things, and pro.

Pro, sorry, procedural
texture, generators.

Um, we are building general, by the way,
in Unity, which is an amazing game engine.

And we're using their graphics, um,
node based kind of shader building

tools, the shader graph, um, to
build amazing digital only materials.

And people just love it.

They just like, oh my God, like I've
never imagined I can wear something

or see an outfit with this effect.

And the beauty of our software.

Is that we tied all the values to sliders.

While sliders are questionable from
a UX perspective right now, they are

the easiest interface that we can
open up these features to the users.

So we are just simply moving sliders.

They can tweak our materials,
and the materials are live.

They react to you as a user.

And I think one of the keys to success.

Is this direct feedback.

So I change something and the
outfit, the material reacts to me.

That's what people can relate to because
that's, that's something that makes

it unique and makes it personalized.

Then we have many other features,
which I'm not gonna bore you with.

We have graphics, we have painting,
um, we have vfx, and VFX has

been a really interesting one.

So by the way, we are doing quite
a lot of user testing, public ones

and one-on-one sessions as well.

And we had a lot of indie designers,
indie creators, digital fashion

designers testing our game because
they just like to play with something

that's easy to do, even though
they have amazing technical skills.

And interestingly for mostly all
of them, they just laugh that they

can set their outfit on digital
fire, which is very interesting.

For me.

Yeah, it's very interesting
for me because I would pick a

million other things over that.

But they expressed that actually to
make VFX like that they don't know

how to do it, and the current software
that they're using is not possible.

Like, for example, clove 3d.

So actually the fact that we made, uh,
funny things like fire or electricity,

part of a simple design program
makes it super interesting for them.

So there is a lot of interesting findings.

We are also using a very cool camera
plugin and we have, uh, camera movements.

So if you're not familiar with
fashion photography, if you don't

know how to kind of best shoot your
outfits, we have solutions and you

just need to choose a template.

All in all, we wanted to create a lot
of freedom and a lot of customization,

but still within reason and limits
because even with the current

features, people get easily overloaded.

You will think that if it's a creator
platform, it should have all the features

possible, but actually if you think of
a general user, They are not used to

customization and they're definitely
not used to creative decision making.

Like for me to design an outfit or even
a coffee cup, it's like an everyday job.

I love it.

I do it.

But if you stop someone on the street
and you ask them, could you design a

shoe or can you choose a shoe lace color?

They actually get stressed.

So one of the biggest challenge for
us is how to take the stress away.

How to kind of immerse our, yeah, how
to immerse our players in a story where

they forget that it's about creativity
and when they just kind of go along

with the story and they start to make
creative decisions without realizing it.

I think that's the biggest challenge.

I'm not saying we cracked it, but I
think we have lots of different features

like the fire or even our environments.

We have some really silly 3D environments
and people start to forget that

actually they don't know how to design
because it's not about design anymore.

It's about storytelling.

So in a nutshell, it has been a
really interesting, um, kind of, uh,

feedback from our earlier adopters.

We just finished a huge competition with
one of the leaders of the digital Fashion

Space Dress Act, and throughout the
competition we got a lot of testimonials.

We didn't even ask for it.

People were just sending us.

Super amazing positive comments about
how they found our platform addictive.

So enjoyable, really fun.

They were also broke it quite a few
times and you know when you get,

when you get a message about, Hey
guys, I think I broke your game.

Well, you know, we are happy about it
because at least we know there is a bug.

But it's also a fun experience.

And one thing I've learned from, uh,
my team, because I'm actually 31,

which is not old, I know, but we are
working for very, very young audiences.

So actually I feel, uh,
like a dinosaur sometimes.

And one thing I learned from
my Gen Z marketing lead, uh,

Alex, if you're listening, um,
is that actually her generation?

I'm.

I hope this is correct, but they are
okay with being, um, early stage.

They are okay with your software
not being perfect because they want

to be there from the beginning.

They want to support you just as much
as you are supporting them, and that's

what I've actually experienced recently.

Most of the early adopters who tried Gene.

Love it, even if it has problems, even if
it has imperfections and they embrace it.

So that just makes me even more excited
about the future because we are all about

building a community where people feel
safe, where they can share their creations

and, and, uh, get supportive feedback
where you feel safe to share creativity.

And I think the basics of a community
like this is based on support.

It's.

It's based on mutual respect and support.

And currently that's the
feedback what we are getting.

So I think we are off
to a really good start.

Kevin Horek: Yeah, that's interesting.

Well, the other thing too is you could
probably, as people use the software,

you could give them more advanced
features, or you could even at some point

have like an advanced toggle, right?

And like, oh yeah, games
do that all the time.

As you keep playing,
they get harder, right?

And they train you.

That's

Lili Eva Bartha: interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we do have advanced features.

We kind of took them out because
they backfired because we

realized that actually Sure.

So actually we, I will reverse it.

We used to have advanced and beginning
features or beginner features and we

decided to take at the beginner features
because, um, I naively thought that

people will get overwhelmed by, I dunno,
too many options, too many sliders.

Actually, so far our user testings act.

Prove that people are okay.

So right now, all our
advanced features are exposed.

That's awesome.

But the more we work with, yeah,
yeah, it's actually awesome.

Um, maybe I was underestimating the
complexity or overestimating, um, but

as we are kind of working with more and
more, um, stakeholders and different

partners, We get a lot of interest from
enterprise and yeah, I think that will be

a really interesting route to go down on
where yes, we are becoming more complex

and that will be partially user facing.

But I think if we're also turning
to a, a B2B facing thing, because if

you think about a bigger company, not
fashion anything, um, they want to

develop digital collections as part of
a promotion or even a new product line.

And for Deb, They might not want to invest
in, you know, a, a professional level

software if they want to do it in-house
and they don't have the skills yet.

So if they could do it in our software,
because we will be on a level that

provides them the accuracy they
need, then I think it could be a very

exciting tool that enables them to
maybe be more efficient, make it faster.

We also have a super exciting
feature that we, uh, kind of release.

I think we will release it this year.

It's called multi-user function.

So you will be able to design the same
outfit in the same room, you know, a

digital room, of course, across the world.

So multi-player creativity is
something I'm really excited about.

Yes.

Kevin Horek: Very cool.

Okay, so I design something
or I design a collection.

What can I do with it today and what are
you hoping I can do with it tomorrow?

Lili Eva Bartha: Oh, okay.

The golden question.

Very good question.

So, um, I naively, you know, I'm always
hoping that people will just be super

happy that they could make something.

But the funny thing about fashion
is that it's to be worn in a way.

Some people collect it, but most
people want to wear it, right?

That's the whole funny
part of the industry.

So the second most, uh, kind
of, uh, popular question we get

is, what can I do with it now?

Where can I wear it?

So, And that's the really interesting
question about our landscape because

any kind of online platform, uh, any
game, I don't even want to use the

word metaverse because that's so 2022,
and it's also marketing term, but you

know, any platform where you would be
represented as an avatar, obviously you

are not naked unless you're a toaster.

I was in the VR showcase space
with a toaster butter avatar, and

I loved it because as a toaster
you don't need to dress up.

But anyways, off topic.

Fair enough.

Um, so, um, the thing about where to wear
it and how to wear it is that today the

digital platforms are not built yet in
the way that if you make one step ahead,

that step will take door platforms.

So what we are doing right now,
Actually, we are building this

kind of use case proof of concept
partnerships step by step one by one.

For example, the winners of our Dress
X competition that was announced today,

uh, will have their designs implemented
in dress X's AR application, which is

basically using Snapchat's technology.

So right now we are going to translate
those loops into a Snapchat filter.

I wish one day.

Tomorrow it could be automated.

So actually they go directly, you know,
for example, into that app and then

boom, you can wear it as a filter, which
is, by the way, a really interesting

thing because many of our users are.

Uh, if they could wear the outfit on
themselves, if they could put a picture

in there because they want to see the
outfit on their own physical body.

So I find augmented ability filters
a really interesting direction, and I

think we will be trying to cover that
together with the AVA avatar outfits.

So wearables or AVA avatar skins.

So on the filter front, we have
a couple of partnerships and

we are working slowly, slowly.

The golden egg or the cherry on
top would be automation, right?

So for the user, I'm a big
believer of not exposing our

users to unnecessary technology.

So if you give them a 3D file,
even if they designed it, they

have no clue what to do with it.

Yeah.

Fair.

And, Yeah, and the game pipelines
that are open, which means that

people can take digital content
to there, um, are complicated.

Honestly, just give it a go.

I, I could only 0.1 or two platforms
out that are actually easy to

bring in your own content, be it
an image that's a texture, or an

actual avatar, or a 3D outfit file.

So for our players, it would
be very counterproductive to

suddenly just give them files.

Be it any extensions.

So what we are working really hard
on is do it uh, under the hood,

like completely kind of seamlessly
unnoticeable with just a click of a

button, you would be able to wear your
outfits in a certain partner platform.

So right now we are working on that.

I cannot tell you who they are, but I
also cannot say is gonna be tomorrow.

It's gonna take a couple of months.

Um, when we are talking about game skins
or a avatars and because Ava avatars

are not just in games, um, That's a
really interesting question because you

could target gaming platforms directly
because they have their pipelines open.

But what we found interesting is actually
targeting O avatar service providers.

So if you partner with an OT avatar
platform and you enable in some

format of automation or even just
getting our outfits to their platform,

then those are avatars are like
messengers and they take your outfits.

To a number of different words,
be it games or social platforms

across the metaverse, um, when
they're compatible with one.

So basically our current steps are all
about, okay, who are we partnering with?

What is the minimum technical
viability that this partnership

can be more than just.

Proof of concept.

So I personally would be really kind
of, uh, following our socials and

having a look on our partnership
announcements because, you know,

we are literally unfolding these
strategical steps right now.

I wish I could say that we can automate
it, yet We cannot, but we are working

really hard on it because again, my
dream is to, even if it's a handful of

platforms, but provide our users with
just a one button click kind of transfer

options so that they can just head over
to that platform, do whatever they want

to do, wearing what they just designed.

Kevin Horek: Yeah, that's fascinating.

The, the gameplay thing
is really interesting.

Yeah, the avatar thing
is really interesting.

The AR stuff's really interesting.

Yeah.

The whole, the whole space is,
or, and what you guys are doing is

actually really cool, so thank you.

I'm, I'm curious though, cuz we're kind
of coming to the end of the show and I

feel like we could go on another hour.

Can you maybe give us some other
examples and ideas of how to explain

what people can do in the tool?

Because.

I, I get it's, they literally
just need to go try the product.

Really?

But it's hard in just
an audio version, right?

Yeah, yeah,

Lili Eva Bartha: yeah.

Um, right.

I mean, I would start with.

Why on in the first place would you want
to do anything with a digital outfit?

Okay.

Because many people don't even know
what that is or why they should

have one, or would they want to
have one, let alone customize it.

So how I usually start my question is I.

If you would need a digital outfit
right now, where would you go?

What would you do?

Um, most people don't know, so I
would say, why you go to my platform?

But then they ask me, okay, but why
do I need a digital, digital outfit?

So in general, if you want to decide
how you want to look like in the digital

space, Then you want to customize it.

And there are very few platforms
right now where you can do that.

So the kind of motivational drive is from
the customization perspective you want.

You want to make your design your own.

Also, some people like to
experiment with, what if today

I'm not buying a physical item?

What if today I do a digital item?

And then maybe that will still give
me the satisfaction of something new.

So there are lots of different,
like driving factors for a

player to enter our platform.

They are also, many of them
are just creators who like

to play with mid journey.

So it's really interesting to see that
different kind of, uh, personas have

different motivations and pain points.

And then in the software it's,
it's quite straightforward really.

You have a number of different outfits.

And then you can kind of build
on top of them, customize

them, make, make it your own.

I think one of the most exciting things
will be is our brand partnerships.

Because if you think about an
outfit, what makes it interesting

for you to engage with it?

Could it be just the design of it, or is
it because it's coming from your favorite

brand and the new drop of that favorite
brand is only available on my platform?

It's a new type of activation
where the brand decides.

To open up their design universe and they
give an opportunity for their audience to

kind of engage with the creation process.

So basically become a
co-creator with the brand.

And for that, our platform
is actually a wonderful tool.

So if you imagine, I don't wanna name
names, but if you imagine each and them.

And they say, okay, I'm gonna make a new
digital collection that's only available

in general, and we are gonna develop
branded fabrics, branded graphics.

I will let my consumers or my audience
engage with this new type of kind

of product and enable them to.

Kind of customize it, and then
maybe some of these outfits could

be even physically manufactured.

So what the brand brings with this is
it's a new type of engagement, a new

type of connection with the audience.

Something where they're
building a creative community.

And I think for our
target audience, who is.

Obviously, basically like
Gen Z and early millennials,

community is really important.

If they can connect to a brand
they like in the way that the kind

of aligns with the values, they
will be more likely to kind of,

you know, stay loyal to the brand.

So one possible user journey in our
software will be and could be, I

just don't wanna announce yet who
the brand partner is, um, that you

can play with the branded outfits
in a way that you have never before.

And, uh, you know, it's great for me.

Because when I decided to stay in
fashion, I wasn't just thinking about

reinventing what kind of outfits
I make, if they're real or not.

I was also thinking about my
experience at high fashion brands.

I feel like mass, most high fashion brands
are still very hierarchical and it lacks

transparency and it lacks democracy.

And I really have this like.

Kind of secret dream of breaking down
these hierarchies and democratizing

creativity, which is a bit more
extreme than democratizing a company.

I want to democratize creativity
in fashion, but I think

it's a beautiful example.

If a brand is excited about this
opportunity, then I get very positive

and hopeful because I believe that
they are starting to understand

the way forward will be opening up.

Their design universe, uh,
opening up control and involving

and inviting their audience.

And I think this could be a
beginning of some beautiful kind of

transformation in the fashion industry.

Kevin Horek: No, I a hundred
percent agree with you.

That's, that's really cool.

But sadly, we're outta time.

So how about we close with
mentioning where people can get

more information about yourself.

The company and any other links you wanna

Lili Eva Bartha: mention?

Oh, absolutely.

So while it's really difficult
to pronounce our name, I take

full responsibility for that.

Um, everyone is welcome to follow
us on socials, on Instagram.

We are GN three ra, so general on
Twitter, we are general.io and we often

announce our latest collaboration as
jobs and partnerships and socials.

So I really encourage everyone to.

Follow us there.

Um, we also have obviously a very
beautiful website, so GM three ra.io,

um, and, uh, the application is free.

All you have to do is go there, sign
up, log in, and play in your browser.

Right now we are only supporting laptops
or touch version Will come out quite

soon and then we are going to work.

A mobile version.

So all you need is an internet connection.

You don't need a gaming
laptop, nothing else.

It's really just about your browser
access and internet connection.

So, um, I hope many of, uh, the
podcast listeners will get some

flare and do some digital outfits.

If you do, uh, you're
welcome to tag us on socials.

If you post something and you tag
general, we are super happy to repost

your creation because we want to embrace,
you know, the community creations.

Kevin Horek: Very cool.

Well, Lilly, Eva, I really appreciate
you taking the time outta your

day to be on the show, and I look
forward to keeping in touch with you

and have a good rest of your day.

Lili Eva Bartha: Oh,
thank you so much, Kimmy.

It was a pleasure to be here and
thanks for the amazing questions.

Thanks very much.

Okay, bye.

Thank you.

Bye.