Ep. 556 w/ Peeblebee Company
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Welcome back to the show. Today we have Doug and Daniel, the CEO and CTO of Pebbleby. Guys, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Kevin. Great to hear. Welcome. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm excited to have both you on the show. I think what you guys are doing at Pebblebee is actually really innovative and cool. But maybe before we get into that, let's get to know each one of you a little bit better. Maybe, Doug, since you're the CEO, maybe we'll let you go first, maybe give us a little background on yourself. And then, Daniel, I'll do the same for you.
Yeah, sure. Thanks. Yeah. So, grew up in the Midwest, in the great state of Minnesota, not far from Canada. So, yeah, kind of a traditional upbringing up there. Attended the University of Minnesota, business degree with marketing and finance economics, and then had kind of my early.
Sorry to cut you off. I'm just curious, what got you passionate about that and why did you want to take that university?
I had done various sort of internships through high school, early in college, and really just found business was my passion. It allowed me, I'm a pretty competitive guy and grew up in lots of athletics and sport, and just found that I was able to tap the competitive side a little more on the business side. And frankly, I'm not as brilliant as Daniel on the product side. And I learned that early on, he's a better engineer than I would be. So I'd rather do the business side. So got in early on at the University of Minnesota, did lots of internships in the business realm, and then had an opportunity with an early stage company in Minneapolis or St. Paul called USSB. They were a pioneer in the satellite business, in the interesting, the small 18 inch satellites.
So, got in early on there and was able to sort of tap into more of the marketing and sales side of the background, and then did that for a few years. And DirecTV, which were a partner with DirecTV, but DirecTV ultimately acquired our side of the business, and then I was exposed to TiVo. So then it's sort of been a career in new products, innovative new products, in new segments, whether it was satellite or DIY, home security were really the first one at Drop Cam, which was acquired by Google. Spent a lot of time with Euro on the mesh Wi Fi side. So Wi Fi had been around, traditional routers had been around, they had gotten faster, but nobody was doing mesh WiFi until Euro got into it.
So I've had an interesting opportunity for 25 years to bring new and innovative products to market in new segments. That's sort of turned into a passion over the years.
Very cool. Daniel, do you want to give us a bit of background on yourself?
Absolutely. So, yeah. Daniel Daura. I was born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon. So very different culture, best food you can find anywhere in the world. I'm a little biased, but honestly, you got to trust me on that one. So, yeah, I think my upbringing in Beirut was challenging, to say the least. Obviously, I remember back in the day, I mean, this is kind of what got me into engineering. My grandfather was very innovative. He was an engineer and background himself. And I remember when we would be in bomb shelters and we would have no electricity and we had to run TV to watch our news. And so him and I would go collect milk jugs and would formulate some sort of acidic formula, which is usually lemon and vinegar, and have our cathode and anode from copper and zinc and create, develop batteries.
They were terrible. They weren't efficient. But that was our first experience, creating batteries and charging them when we had power and running our TV. Wow. And then learned from that and then went from there to essentially salvage batteries from cars that were just on the street and then rebuilding them and built a system where now we had heat and TV and we had all sorts of things, the basics that we needed when we didn't have electricity. So that kind of really triggered, I mean, I was nine years old, and that triggered my interest innovation and adding value. And I remember also I flew into the US. This was when it was really bad and we had to leave. And we came into the US for about six months.
And I was twelve years old and I went back, and this is when I discovered Costco and I discovered Candy, American candy, and I bought a whole bunch. And every dollar I had, I spent it all and bought a whole bunch of candy, went back to Lebanon, full know, went back to school, and I sold it for three, four times the price. And that's when I got hooked. Not only because I made money, but I could see the smiles on these kids. They were so excited and happy. Within two, three days they were all sold out. And they were like, can we have some more? Can we have some more? And I was just the. In both the innovation side of things and then also the business side of things, which is why I ended up going to University of Washington.
I got my computer engineering degree there, as well as my master's in electrical engineering, and then ended up working for Boeing PhantomWorks, which is specifically focused on military communication systems. My thesis back at school was based on predicting satellite communication traffic for the purposes of improving quality of service. And so it was in the military segment, it was also military assets, which is essentially tracking assets. And I ended up doing the same thing for Boeing for eleven years, specifically for military, whether it's air, subsea, sea, land, not just for the US, but also internationally, helping them track military assets. And then that led me to start and found with Nick Pearson.
Franks, which was my business partner, founded the company in 2013 on the basis and the vision of essentially helping people find and track their things and the belongings and having peace of mind.
Interesting. Okay, so it's one thing to have, obviously, an idea to do this. What made you decide to actually go for it and actually build Pebble V? And how has it evolved over the last decade?
Basically, it has evolved quite a bit, to say the least. But really, what struck me and got me into starting this is really, there are two things. One is my passion for innovation and creativity, and then also a problem solver. The problem was there and we couldn't find our stuff. This was back in 2012. And so I wanted to solve that problem. My background in technology, wanting to learn engineering, because I wanted to create. I wanted these tools so that I can create. And then also the passion of creating something that adds value in this world, just really adding value, good for humanity. That's really something that I've always been passionate about. And that's where we started off with the business. We created it in our basement and our garages. I mean, literally for several years.
And then when we really spun off the company and I ended up, I mean, we started in 2013, but I quit Boeing 2015 because I was just overwhelmed. So Nick and I started the company. And ever since then, we've always had this vision of having a cross platform system where no matter what system you're using, iOS, Android, Amazon, whatever it is, windows, it would work for you as a user, whether it's a consumer or business. The vision is always to create a unified cross platform system that is sustainable and environmentally friendly. Which is why in 2016, we started with rechargeability, and we're the only company in this space today that we have rechargeable products that work for as long as 18 months on a single charge.
And you don't have to go to the store and buy a battery, replace it, and waste time and have this peace of mind just be on pause. You could just plug it in 30 minutes, 20 minutes, fully charged, you got a whole year left on your device.
Okay, so in the early days, you were basically building prototypes in your garage. Is that correct? Did I understand that correctly?
Yeah, actually, it was my basement and it was Nick's garage. But I was focused on hardware firmware, which is essentially the software that runs on the hardware. And back then, it wasn't like it is today. You didn't have chat GPT, you had to read books, a lot of books. And you had to have advisors and people to talk to. And really, you had to just order equipment and test it yourself. And development kits weren't as good as they are today. Even Bluetooth was terrible back then. It wasn't as good as today. So it was a lot more challenging. And it would take us six months to have a viable product, an MVP that we can send out to friends and family. I remember in Christmas of 2012 is when we gave out these gifts. And, I mean, it looked terrible, but it worked.
And you can attach it to your keys, and you had to download this special app that we built. This was Nick. Nick was focused on app and software, and it worked. And it worked so good that in 2013, everyone's like, you guys got to do this. This is a money maker. And not just that, you're going to add value to people and you're going to give peace of mind and save people time. So we did it in 2013, and we launched in late 2013 and 2014. We had good revenue, we're profitable, and that led us to go out to angels, friends and family. Actually, one of our really close family friend is still our largest investor as a single entity person. And he invested in us and believed in us, and we're here and thriving and growing today.
That's awesome. So how did you and Doug meet? And then let's talk about what the product does today. Well, the few products you have.
Okay. Yeah. So, actually, this is kind of an interesting topic because there's one person, his name is Jack. And I was at a coffee shop and really just tinkering with my products, testing. In fact, this is what I do almost on a daily basis. We get products, and I'm testing just rigorously, wanting to make sure we achieve best user experience. And I was at a coffee shop happens to be at a coffee shop and testing, and I had about maybe 50 of them on the table. And I'm doing this and that. This person shows up to me and comes up, and his name is Jack. He's Young kid. He's 23, I think, at the time, 24 maybe.
And he then said, hey, I work with this company, and they love to see innovation, and they are a future looking, forward looking company, and they like to invest in people like you and your company. And so are you interested and you're looking for investment? I said, absolutely. This is the time when we need to grow. And this was back in 2017 ish. 2018, maybe. And that's when I connected with Sorcom, which ended up investing in Pebble B. And then Jack introduced me to someone. Here's Siri listening to me again. Jack introduced me to someone that I said, hey, Jack, I need the best sales and leadership person, you know, today. And this was back in 2018. And that's when he introduced me to someone that then introduced me to Doug. And then we met and we talked since then.
We talked on a daily basis for a short period of time, and then we kind of lost touch. And then we kind of reconnected in 2021, I believe. Right, Doug? And that's when I got together with Doug, and I said, Doug, I need help. Nick passed away, my co founder, in 2020. So I really needed help. I took on a lot for a short period of time, for about a year and a half, and then I needed help. And that's when I reached out to Doug, and Doug said, hey, not only can I help you, I can help you raise some money, too. Doug, you want to take it from there?
Yeah. So we reconnected. I was with a really interesting company based out of Tokyo that's a go to market partner for us brands, but also a distributor, manufacturer, publisher. So I'd spent a couple of years through COVID with SourceNext, investing in brands and helping them with a growth path for the Asian market, specifically Japan. And then after Daniel and I got reconnected, we recalibrated a bit of what I was doing. And after we did a bunch of due diligence while at SourceNext, did a bunch of due diligence in Pebbleby. Daniel was in need of capital and sort of leadership help. And that was the model that we had at SourceNext prior. So we put it all together. We realized that Pebbleby was an amazing gem that had incredible product. Daniel and team are incredible product builders, innovators and lots of patents behind it.
So it felt like a really ripe opportunity to inject capital into the company, join Daniel, and then ultimately bring this new initiative and new product to market, maybe in a different level than it had in the past. So that was about two years. So Daniel and I, I guess I officially joined January of last year, and we sat down and realized this is an amazing category that is on a massive growth cycle due to other brands that have gotten into it. And awareness is better. But it isn't just about attaching to keys and wallets. It's about attaching to valuables that really can be way beyond keys and wallets and way beyond just consumer into the B two B world. So we'll share more about that.
But, yeah, it's been really great to get reconnected with Daniel, to join the team and then to partner with him on this new initiative to bring Pebbleby to the masses. And we've got the right strategy and the right product to do that.
Okay, so you mentioned, obviously, and I think anybody's kind of thinking that it's like there are other companies and competitors out there, probably Apple being the big one. They also just signed a deal with Google right now. How does that actually play into your strategy? And then let's dive into how you're different and the products that you're actually building these days.
Yeah, maybe I'll take that. Daniel, you can add.
I.
So Apple got into this business roughly two years ago, and other brands that were in this space, or all brands in this space, sort of had a choice to make. Apple has a platform. You can become a licensee and essentially partner with them, or you can go other directions. Daniel and folks at the time made the decision to partner with Apple. Others have gone the legal route. It was a great choice not to do that. So essentially, we have Apple as a licensee across licensing partner. So we work within their Apple find my app. And back to Daniel's original plan was, how do you make this work for everybody? So today, and we'll get into it over time here, but we've got the only product that works on the native app for Apple and soon to be the native app for Android with Google.
That was announcement that we made just a couple of weeks ago. So we're in a really unique position to solve for the consumer with the best product that works differently than others. But it also brings simplicity in that there's no other app you need to download. It just works with what you have in an environment you're already using.
Sure. Well, and let's be honest, I think a lot of people have both ecosystems in the house, right? Not everybody has the latest and greatest iPhone. Or one might have that and one might have android phone, or your kids might have your old phones or your Android phone. I think a lot of people have both devices kicking around these days. Is that fair to say?
Yeah, I think that is fair to. So as we've sort of built out the strategy in some of these licensing deals with the major tech companies, the other thing that's paying off for us is when Daniel and I sat down after we got together here, it was realizing that if we try and sell this product like every other brand, we're probably not going to be as successful because there's other brands that have ten years in this business, and there's other brands like Apple that have a massive brand, massive distribution and loyalty. So it was really about how do we take one products that are grounded in amazing patents, but take the team that we have and extend our products to other things? So this then opens up the world of B, two B partnerships or enterprise.
And now because we're the only company that has cross platform compatibility out of one individual SKU, and we can clarify all this, but we can work on either. This device works on either not simultaneously, but either. Then we can take that to partners. Like, you'll see skis behind. Daniel, we did a deal with Peak Skis, where now our discussion with Peak Skis was, if you're interested in a tracking solution, first of its kind, never been done in skis or in snow sports. We're the only one that when you sell it works with either the Android customer or the Apple customer. They don't have to version. They would never do that.
Interesting.
Taken the strategy of the company in a different way, where now it's opened up partnerships, B two B and Enterprise, that maybe historically had not been part of the strategy.
Okay, so I want to dive obviously deeper into the business side, but maybe let's start off with the consumer devices, and then let's work towards the business stuff and how they all kind of either tie together and then do they keep going all the way through business, or is there like they're completely separate? Walk us through that.
Okay. Daniel, you want to talk?
Yeah, yeah. I kind of want to tap back into what were just talking about is cross platform compatibility and how we want to make sure that this is the best user experience for users. And so we don't want to focus on this is the only way it works. And you have to use the Apple ecosystem. And this is the also, I don't know if you know, there was a recent proposal between Apple and Google for unwanted tracking, and there's a new spec that was proposed and this was something that Pebblebee worked on as well with Apple and Google. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So we've definitely been working on this and we're participating in this new spec. And what that means is that I can't say much now, but eventually you can see a unified system. And that is kind of our vision.
Our vision from the beginning has been to be the global leader in a cross platforM, integrated location services type of company, which means that it's not just Apple and Google. There are other big companies in this space that we will be integrated into. And not only will this be a consumer play, it's definitely an enterprise play as well. It's just that it's got to be in steps. And right now we're focused on the consumer eventually. And actually it is already playing a role in enterprise when it comes to, for example, other brands and us being a value add to those brands. Like, for example, Peak Ski, which is right behind me. In fact, the solution is inside the ski right now. I'm not going to show you, but it's inside the ski.
And essentially, like Doug was saying, yeah, you don't know, you don't want to have android ski or an IOS ski, right? Yeah. And this works. It's a single SkU that works with either find my or find my device, which finally we can talk about it now or Pebblebee or something else that will be coming in the future. So my point is that it needs to be the best user experience. That's how a winner becomes a winner, because it cannot be from us driving how the user needs to use it. It needs to be how the user is already using their tools and services. And then we blend in.
Okay, so walk us through the current versions of the hardware today, and then I want to go into the ski and all the other kind of business partnerships and how people could leverage your technology.
Yeah, I'll go into that. So we have three products that we just recently released. We have the card, which is super thin. It's almost two credit cards thin, same shape as a credit card. It is rechargeable and it lasts for up to 18 months on a single charge.
Okay, sorry to interrupt you, but how do you charge a credit? Like, is it wireless charging? How does that work?
No. So it's got pins on the back and the magnets and there's a cable that comes with it and they just slap on. And I wish I had it right here in front of me so I can show you. But it snaps on and it's USB. So you plug it in, charge it, full charge probably might take with trickle charging about an hour and a half, but you would get about 80% within 30 minutes.
Kevin, can you see this little charger?
Kevin, can you see this little charger?
Yeah I can see that. That's cool.
Just snaps on.
That's very cool.
Okay. Yeah. And then it lasts for 18 months on a single charge. And it's loud, it's got a very good range. Much better than any competitor. Today we say up to 500ft, but honestly I've been able to test it. 1500ft, line of sight, straight. I have to have my wife sitting right next to it. I'm on a phone. Hey, can you hear it? It's just for testing purposes. Obviously it's not practical, but yeah. So that's how this device works. In your wallet, you can put it in your purse or anything really that needs a thin. In fact I have it on my laptop that I'm using right now and it's very useful because sometimes I'll leave the house and I forget my laptop, I get a notification. You left your laptop behind.
So that's what we use the card for, or most consumers use it for. And we also have the clip. The clip is also USBC rechargeable and it has very bright LEDs. And the LEDs serve multiple purposes. One of them is charge indication, so the fully charged is green, medium is like yellow, you need to charge, it is like red. And this also lasts up to twelve months on a single charge. It has its integrated clip functionality, so you don't have to buy an additional accessory to clip it to your keys, et cetera. Again, it's rechargeable, very thin, very lightweight, small and lasts up to twelve months. And then the third product that we just recently introduced as well is the tag. I mean if you compare it to the card, it's quite small, right? It's a little bit thicker, but it's quite small.
It also charges the same way as the card. This one's up to eight months and this one's great. For example if you want to put it or use an adhesive, to use it on a remote control for example, or if you want to put it in a bag or anything in that sense. And then we also have an attachment. So if you want to attach this to stRap. I lose my dog collar all the time because my kids want to remove it, and they're like, they don't want to pet the dog with a dog collar. And so I always lose the dog collar or the dog leash. So I put this on the dog collar, and no problem, find it all the time.
Okay. Very cool. So I want to dive deeper into the tech, say, in the skis, how does that work? How is it embedded? How do I charge it? How does that work?
Yeah. Obviously, for skis, we spent considerable time understanding from. Again, it all starts from user experience. How is it the best user experience, and how can we create this product? To be the best user experience in skis, it has to be water resistant. Right? You're always in water. Snow. It's cold. Right. There is no way to. It's very thin. It has to be very thin. And so we started off with creating a product that is wirelessly rechargeable. It also lasts for an entire season. So it's Qi charging, which is standard charger. It's in your cars. Your phone has Qi charging. It works that way. And then it also has NFC tap, so for pairing and then also for reading information. So it's very cool. You tap, and you can pair.
And it has a special battery chemical construction that allows it so that it can withstand very low temperatures, like when you're skiing in negative 20 degrees or higher temperatures when it's being stored and left outside on the rack, for example, in really warm weathers like spring skiing. I don't know. So that's important. And it also needs to be over molded with some sort of resin because this ski is getting a lot of vibrations. Right. These components need to last for a long time in a ski. So that's how we kind of reengineered this whole product. I mean, we have the layout, we have the technology, we have software and everything. That's a good platform.
But when it comes to form factor, you have to kind of rethink about what is the best user experience, and you go back from there and you build the product. So it's built in. It has very bright LEds, five LEDs that also indicates battery charge, but they're also there to light up, to show you where the ski is. And then there's also a range finder that would be used, for example, as a peak ski app that could also show you where and how far you Are from your skis. If one of those skis gets unbolted from Your Boots and then goes somewhere in the snow, in deep snow, and you got to find It. That's one of the major problems you get when you're skiing back in the backcountry. Sure. So that's how it works.
Totally. Very cool. You also probably had to make it super light, too, because obviously people don't want a ton of extra weight. So how did you worry about that? And making sure that arguably, people don't want to note they want all the technology in their skis, but they don't want it to feel like they have.
Any technology in their skis. Actually, that's a very good point. A lot of people don't even want to know it's there, the technology. And some are very purists, and they don't care if I buy a $2,000 ski in bindings and it's stolen, whatever. I don't want Technology. But the majority do, especially Nowadays. The majority do. And when it comes to weight on the ski, it's not that critical. When we're talking about a few ounces, it's not Grams. I mean, a few grams, it's not that much of a weight. It's probably about an ounce or less. Half an ounce, maybe. It's not that big of a Deal. What is a Problem, though, is when it comes to, for example, golf clubs. And that's something that we've built. We have a Partnership with Henry GriFfiths. There it is, only 3 Grams. Wow. 3 grams.
That Goes inside the. The Shaft of the golf butt and under the grip. So you have to regrip. Obviously, this is built in. And the point isn't for theft or anything like that, really. It is a Theft Deterrent. But the point is really the functional and the value add here is about left behind alerts. Because when you're Golfing, I mean, Doug golfs more than me, probably not enough, but a lot more than me. And when I golf, I'm always leaving my nine iron or my wedge behind and moving to the next hole and then not realizing until after the end of the next hole that, oh, my gosh, my wedge is all the way back there.
Right.
And it happens because you carry two of them, and then you're putting and you leave it because you can't hold two at the same time.
I've done that many times.
You're wasting time. So that's the added value there. And to your point, in terms of weight, we had to redesign this whole entire form factor for golf clubs because it needs to be very lightweight. It needs to be rechargeable. How do you recharge something that's inside of a club? Well, happens to be that we're, serendipitously is that there's this little hole, not the sleeve, but the grip on the tip of it. And the hole's purpose is that when you slide it through, air can escape from that hole.
Right?
That's the only purpose, at least as far as I know. Yeah, there you go. But now you have an entry point where you can charge. So it's just a 2.5 millimeter charge port. And you charge it, and it lasts for a season.
Very cool. Okay, so do you have any other examples of how you've integrated hardware into things that aren't technically, like, smart or known to be smart devices?
Well, I think the two examples there were really part of a broader strategy of embedding our tech into other things. So those are valuable items, from skis to golf clubs.
Totally.
Now we're creating more value for those. So there's lots of other things, like even our golf club solution. You might imagine that goes pretty well in a bike. Bike handles. Just in the US alone, 2 million bikes are stolen a year. So whether it's luggage, bikes, there's plays in the automotive world. Ultimately, it's taking our fantastic tech and extending it to other valuable items. And we're early on in this venture, but the ones that we've talked about and shown so far are the first to roll out. But there will be many more to come.
Very cool. So are you guys actively looking for companies to partner with? Whether it's that you guys maybe haven't even thought of yet of how you could use it?
We are. It's an important part of our strategy. So we love the consumer world, and we love selling through retailers, and we love delighting consumers that want to save their keys, wallets, and everything else. But we also see a larger mission here where we can inject value into these other products. Like what Daniel and the peak development team have done has never been done in snow sports, ever. Building an embedded tracking solution into a ski, that's not easy to do, but we've done it. So, yeah, we're actively seeking new partners in various categories to bring our technology where we can provide value in bringing our technology to their valuable items. We're open for business, and our phones are ready.
In fact, Doug says this quite often, and that is the biggest opportunity has not happened yet, and it's about to happen, and it's just, we don't know about it yet. Right. And so there are so many opportunities out there that we can build and integrate our tech into where in ten years from now, or maybe less five years from now, we're going to be in every household. It's going to be built in to so many of your Daily use type of product.
Well, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, just based on the price of your consumer devices, they're very inexpensive. So next time I get a bike, I might not even know that I'm using your technology, but the bike I bought is integrated with your technology, and you're just in my handlebars. Right. And whatever. Right. That's really cool, actually. So I want to dive a little bit into the actual business side and some of your kind of dashboards and business tools. Do you want to talk about some of those?
Sure.
So how does that work? And give us maybe some examples of how businesses are leveraging your tech to kind of manage a fleet or track a bunch of these.
Yeah. Yeah.
One of the things that in my previous businesses, and also what Daniel's done, is especially on the consumer side. So let's take an example. We were selling great Wi Fi to consumers, and then all of a sudden, cable operators came calling. Well, you need different tools to sell to cable operators. So what did we need over there? We needed an admin panel where a cable company could see lots of different devices, not just one home. And then there's other examples in my past of doing that. So as we got together and thought, well, jeez, let's take an example, like in the world of golf. So we've got a solution for golf clubs. We've got another solution for golf, maybe golf bag manufacturers. So this product could easily be built into a golf bag.
And we've also got another product that's an LTE product that this can be used on golf carts. As an example, there's some golf carts that have GPS built in those companies that provide GPS. It's $50 a month per cart, and they provide dashboard, and there's tools that come with that. Well, for a far more economical solution, we have this. That can be attached to the golf cart. So we built a dashboard. So now that golf course owner can see every golf cart where they are all through the course. And then the guy working the maintenance shack at the end of the night, I know because I was one of these at 16 years old, knows where the last two carts are when they're not in, so they know exactly where they are.
Interesting.
So that's an example of a tool that we built a dashboard that we built. So it gives full visibility to all of the pebblebee devices that customer, in this case a golf course, is using. With our technology. There's rental companies that are using it. There's lots of different companies, but the reality is we built a dashboard that gives them all the tools they need to have access to their product using our technology.
Very cool. Okay, so what other features and functionality is in this dashboard, and how do I interact with it? Obviously, I can see all the golf carts on the course, but what other data or what else can I get from using this dashboard?
Daniel, you want to talk to?
Yeah, there's quite a bit of features and benefits that translate into. I mean, features that translate into benefits. For example, a geofence, for example, if a golf. I'm just going with the golf club or golf cart scenario. The golf cart leaves a particular golf course or an area that it's now designated as no go zone. You get a notification, you get an email, you get a list. At the end of the day, here are some of the golf carts that have gone this area or that area. And that happens sometimes people take them home, if there are homes on that course, and they do because they've had a little too many to drink or something, or maybe they're busy or late somewhere, and then they end up there for a week or so, and no one knows where they are.
And so that's another feature. And then, of course, administrative features and ways to be able to share with other people within an organization, for example, that is more on the enterprise side of things. And then there's also another, for example, not that we are in this space or not, but let's say car dealerships, that is a very big space when it comes to keys, tracking keys, knowing where they are at all times, knowing if they've left the car lot. You can't do that with the Find my app, or you can't do that with the Find my device app, because this is more of a consumer space. But when it comes to enterprise, you can, and you could do that with a dashboard when we're talking about thousands of devices. And you can also create groups.
These groups of devices are for this dealership, and these groups are for this other dealership. One owner may own maybe ten dealerships, right? Some of them own hundreds, right? So you want to be able to have these tools that are completely different features that users typically don't need. But enterprise needs, and some enterprise needs are not necessary for consumers and vice versa. So my point is, there are a lot of features that come into play here when it comes to enterprise, and different businesses are different from what they need. Some businesses need enterprise and then they want handoff to customer, maybe. Imagine the key scenario. You're selling a car. It's at the lot. We don't know where the keys are.
You don't want to be caught with your pants down when you're like, I sold the car, but I can't find the keys for your car. Brand new car that you just bought. Right. And that happens, believe it or not, it happened. It happened to me once, and I had to come the next day. And I'm like, are you serious? I just paid for this sign for this. They're like, we're sorry. You can wait two more hours. I'm like, no, I'm gone. So essentially you find the keys on the lot, but then you want to hand it off to the customer. So the keys end up with the customer and the tracker is with the customer. How does it go from being tracked on the lot to now being more of a private setting, which is tracked by the customer?
And so there are all these scenarios that we're playing a role in.
Interesting. Okay. And you can correct me if I'm wrong here. It sounds like a lot of the features and even hardware that you're building actually is coming from your customer and you're partnering with them basically to solve a problem that benefits both parties. Is that correct?
Yes.
Which is actually a really smart way of building a business, especially in the hardware space, because as you guys both know and maybe even some listeners know it, like iterating and prototyping and hoping that there's a customer can take months if not years, where if you're saying you have a ski company come to you or partner with and say, we need to put this in a ski, that's a lot easier than you saying, we built this for a ski. Now we got to go find companies, right?
Right. Yes, that is for sure. And hardware is hard. Everyone knows that hardware is very hard. But hardware nowadays, I think in the future nowadays is going to be much more higher value proposition, especially when you think of AI and what AI has done to software. It's definitely normalized the entire world when it comes to software and tools, et cetera. But when it comes to hardware, that's still very hard. And so it's definitely made hardware companies, I believe, in the next six to twelve months and beyond more valuable because that is a trait that very few people know how to manage and run when you talk about creating a product like this that is universal, that can work for certain universal products like keys or bags, et cetera, as opposed to building a product that is purpose built for skis or golf clubs.
That I think is where the future is going to be. And we're already ahead on that path.
Totally. No, it makes a lot of sense. So I'm curious though, is obviously you've been doing this a long time, longer than some of your competitors, but how did you basically partner with these brands, including Google and Apple, that are arguably your competitors and part of your business space? Because let's be honest, anybody that's building hardware and or software would love to partner with some of these brands. So what advice do you give to people and how did you guys do it? Because that's the golden ticket, right, that everybody's hoping for when they're building this stuff.
It's not easy. Sure. I can imagine. I don't disregard the fact that there is some luck, but it's small compared to perseverance, determination, focus. You will never guess how many emails I had to send to one of the partners to get there. And it wasn't just that the emails is just a vehicle, but you have to have a very good quality vehicle, right? And you have to make sure that you can back what you're talking about with proof. And that is the fact that we already have best rated products. But furthermore, going in and starting that conversation and meeting with those big giants and then helping them improve their processes, right? Not just on a business or level, but on a technical level.
That has been our value add that we've been advising these big companies in terms of how to improve and deliver best user experience. And so I think, again, it's not easy, it's very hard, but it really starts with good quality user, best user experience in mind, and then perseverance, determination and focus.
Interesting. You mentioned patent technology earlier in the conversation. How much does that play into that conversation as well with these people or these companies, I should say.
Yeah, I think I would echo what Daniel said with think. You know, one of the things with how you get some of these brands to engage is you just know. And Daniel was super Perseverance, was persistence, but then ultimately you've got to back it up, and we back it up with quality of product. You can see that in the reviews. And we own the fundamental patents on a lot of this. As an example, the ski technology behind Daniel, we own the patent for a tracking device in a ski. So as we engage various categories, various partners, various, whatever we're engaged with, they then can do their own due diligence on the product and how we can bring IP as part of a solution. And fortunately, we've got a good portfolio there.
No, I think that's really good advice. I'm curious and we're kind of coming to the end of the show, but is there any other thoughts or advice that you would give people to look, that are getting into the hardware firmware software space? Because it's challenging.
Product perspective, but it's not cheap if you're in the hardware space, it's not cheap in a number of ways. One is, it takes capital to build the product. Two, it takes dollars to bring the product to market, and ultimately to drive website traffic, to drive sales, to do distribution deals, all of that. So be sure that you're well capitalized to build on the strategy of whatever product you're going to build. But from a product perspective, Daniel can address that.
Yeah, and I'd like to add great points, Doug, but I'd like to add, I think from my perspective, the most expensive component of this is time. It takes a long time to establish these relationships with these factories, relationships with the component vendors, relationships with these partners and customers. That takes a long time. And when you mess up on something or quality or anything like that, it takes even longer to recuperate that lost time and trust in that customer. I think the biggest value, largest value that we've attained here is that we have that experience under our belt and we've made the mistakes and we've learned from them and not made them again. And we continue to improve. And our focus, again, is best user experience. But also when it comes to within the company, it's people, it's 100% people.
And it's about partnering with employees that are devoted, that we are devoted for what's best for them and their future and their career, as opposed to what's best for the company, because that inherently becomes what's best for the. I mean, if you talk to any of our employees, they just love Pebblebee, they love what we do, they love the culture that we've built. And I think it really comes down to when you want to tackle this sort of market space, whether it's hardware or anything, you got to start with people. You got to have good employees, good people, good partners on the team that have sort of very similar vision to what you're trying to accomplish.
But when it comes to, as Doug was saying, in terms of having good funding, that is very important to know, because you need to scale that business and it's a very challenging landscape, especially nowadays. Extremely challenging landscape. So really it's just finding your niche and having the right people, having the right mindset, being very persistent and determined, because you will get so many no's, you'll get so many doors that are locked. Eventually, though, if you're determined on what you're trying to accomplish and you have that vision and you continue to be persistent, you will get there. You just have to believe in yourself, really.
I think that's really good advice. And correct me if I'm wrong, you said earlier in the show that you started this while working full time and you didn't just quit right away. You worked at this for a couple of years, validated the idea, then quit your job, correct?
Yeah, I did that when I just had two kids at the time and they were very young. And my wife, if it wasn't for her, I would not be here today. So she helped a lot. So I don't know. That is very important to also keep in mind that family health is super important. But I was younger and I definitely had more energy and drive that I could provide towards this business. And nowadays it's just I'm definitely a little bit more consumed with family, which should be the case. Right. But if I had to start this over again, it would be definitely a lot harder having family and just being honest with everyone. You really have to have a balance and you have to make sure that really, health is most important.
Because if you're not healthy enough to do this, then you shouldn't even start. Right? So take care of yourself, take care of your family, and then definitely have that passion and perseverance that can drive you to the next day and so forth.
No, I think that's really good advice. And just to reiterate, I think it's good to see somebody like yourself that didn't quit their job because you hear that so much that you have to be like all in day one or you're going to fail. And it's like, no, that's not always the case. Sure. If you can do that. Sure, if you can't do that, you can still be successful and not quit your job right out of the gate.
Right.
I think that's what I really wanted to get on top of that, too.
I agree.
Sadly, we're out of time. So how about we close with mentioning where we can get more information about you guys, Pebblebee and any other links you want to mention?
Yeah, Pebblebee.com we're available on Amazon.com as well. And then all of our social platforms, we're on as. And, and any interesting brands could look us up on LinkedIn. But we would love to engage with any brand that's interested injecting our valuable technology into their valuable products and.
Definitely look us up. Doug Beater and Daniel Dowera Daoura on LinkedIn and connect with us. We'd be happy to take this further on. Perfect, guys.
Well, I really appreciate you both taking the time out of your day to be on the show, and I look forward to keeping in touch with you and have a good rest of your day.
Great.
Thanks, Kevin.
Awesome. Thank you, Kevin. Thanks, guys. Thank you for the opportunity. Take care.
Thanks.
Bye.
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