Building The Future Show - Radio / TV / Podcast

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Welcome back to the show. Today we have Nicole Sadoma. She's a founder, attorney and author. Nicole, welcome to the show. 

Hey there. Thanks for having me. 

Yeah, I'm excited to have you on the show today. I think what you're doing is actually really interesting and useful to a lot of people, even if they don't necessarily end up getting divorced. Just all the stuff that comes around and things to think about when creating a company, whether you're married or going to get married and all that fun stuff. But before we get into all that, maybe let's get to know you a little bit better and start off with where you grew up. 

I grew up in Florence, South Carolina. 

Okay. 

This small town, if you live in the Carolinas, it's more often referenced as on the way to Myrtle Beach. 

Okay, sweet. Very cool. 

It's the midpoint between New York and Miami, too. So there's a little tidbit about Florence, South Carolina. But I left when I was 16. I graduated high school when I was a junior. 

Okay. 

I thought I was ready to roll, and so I did. And like all good lawyers, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Oh, interesting, right? And made a C in microbiology in college and thought, well, no good doctor would ever make a C in micro. And so I switched over and finished actually with a communications degree. And that feels so long ago, it makes me feel old to even talk about it. As if my college education has anything to do with where I am right now. But worth mentioning. 

No, it's interesting. Right. Just, I think how that kind of just plays into later in life. Right. And I think how important it is that background into what you're doing today. So walk us through your career up until what you're doing today, and then we'll dive into the book and your speaking engagements and everything else. 

I've been practicing law for 23 years. 

Wow. 

And 15 years ago, almost to the day, I opened a law firm. Our headquarters is in Charlote, North Carolina. Okay. We grew from my paralegal and me in the first year, two to twelve. That's how it started. I know. It just happened to be that way. I decided that I thought I could do things differently. Have always been really passionate about family law, and so we grew two to twelve in twelve months and doubled that over the next couple of years. And now we have five offices. 

Wow. 

There are 30 lawyers with four. We are five different locations. Our last office that we opened was in Greenville, South Carolina, which is an awesome town if you've never been there. It's really close to Clemson, and we opened there in January of this year. So it has definitely been a big part of. Big part of my life, being a business owner, going from being a litigator to actually running a law firm. And so that's really the way I spend my days. Now, 15 years in, I spend about a third of my day managing client care, being a second chair to other lawyers, and handling consults. A third of my day managing the brand of the law firm and all of its locations, and then a third of my day actually running the business. So that's my perfect day. 

Of course, it's not always that way, but I'm also a mom to three boys and three dogs, and a step mom to two cats. You're not busy at beautiful bonus daughter and a bonus son? Yes. I'm like the poster child of blended and business owner and all other things. So it's pretty fun around here. 

Sure. No, that's great. The closest I've been is Durham a number of years ago. Not what I expected in a good way. Not that I had a bad thing coming into it, but I just was not what I expected at all. Like peaceful, kind of like a beautiful place. And I don't just. It was totally not what I expected, but cool. And it seems like there was a bunch of people from New York there that a lot of them actually had bought in property around Northern, Southern Carolina that they were going to move to and retire. Right. Which was interesting. 

Charlote, North Carolina. I don't know what the stats are today, but the last time I was at a city, a meeting where they were talking about the growth, 167 people move to Charlote every single day. So we're kind of like known as the banking capital, but it's such a microcosm. If you say, hey, where are you from? And they say Charlote, you almost feel like they're a unicorn. But I love this city and watching it grow over the last 20 years. Now I've 23 years I've been here, but I practiced in Washington state, in Seattle for a couple of years along the way, and that was a great experience. But I love my queen city in. 

Well, that's cool. And Seattle, I love Seattle, too. But the cool thing, too is there's a huge tech scene in Charlote and North Carolina and that whole area, too, where there's, like a lot of headquarters that nobody really either, which I didn't realize until I went. So very cool. So I want to dive a little bit deeper into kind of what we're going to talk about today. When setting up a business with or without your spouse, how does that actually kind of work? And what should people think about when doing that? Because as somebody that hates kind of paperwork and is not good at that, it's very overwhelming very quickly. 

Well, let me start by saying I am a terrible dinner guest. If you're going to invite me to dinner, somebody is going to leave kind of pissed off. And the reason for that is because I like the challenge of making sure people know what they need to know as they make these really big decisions. And it's not just starting a business. Like, starting a business is a part of your journey, but being married is another part of your journey. And totally in the book. Please don't say you're sorry. One of the things that has always been really important to me for a message especially, I'll say to anyone, but especially to business owners, small business owners, entrepreneurs, is that I want you to imagine yourself sitting at dinner with all your couple friends, right. 

And look around the table and ask yourself, if that person comes home tonight and says, I don't want to be married to you anymore, and it doesn't have to be some salacious tale. It doesn't have to be, oh, I met someone or I have a drug addiction or I embezzled. It can be just, I think we've grown apart. And my evolution is different than yours. And it's not that I don't love you anymore, but this is not the path I want anymore. Are you prepared? That is such a hard pill to swallow. Can you imagine that happening to you? And are you prepared? And 95% of the time, the answer is no, because you don't think of your relationships like that. 

But when you're in this partnership with your spouse, with your person, you need to be thinking about that very scenario, because even on your best day, it doesn't mean it's the other person's best day, and that those things can happen. And we are so prepared in general for everything else in life. We go to school to learn about whatever it is we want to do in our career. We take the continuing education or we read the Internet, because everything on the Internet is true to research, but we don't do the necessary things when we are getting into a relationship, whether it's hope or love or romance or all those awesome words. The reality is when you're sitting at that dinner table, 95% of the time, you're not prepared. And half of those relationships are likely to end at some point. 

And that is a real statistic. Forbes put out a new list and the numbers are not changing. And the numbers were in the 70% range for people saying, and I won't do it by gender because it was pretty close between the genders that one person wasn't, and I'll paraphrase, as committed as the other person felt they should have been. Right? Isn't that just part of, to me, like the evolution from marriage equality or whatever it is as we grow? Because normally I'll hear like, oh, is adultery the number one thing, or is drugs or abuse or whatever, but so much of it is that commitment and that connection and one person not putting in enough. And so for the business owner, to me, there is even greater of a risk to a business owner. 

Because my favorite thing is when a business owner comes in, and because I am a business owner, I do a lot of business owner clients, right? And they come in and my favorite thing that I hear is my business at risk? And I'll say, well, let's talk about how the business gets valued. And so we make sure that we're identifying the right valuation time frame or whatever, because that's important. But I'll hear my business is not worth anything. And I'm like, okay, one of my favorites, not that long ago, he was like, well, my business has 70, whatever. He said, thousand in the bank account. That's how much it's worth. I'm like, oh, it's going to be a long process, so it's just not the case. It's not what it is on paper. 

So doing what you can to make sure that your business is going to be able to continue in the event of a separation and divorce is really an important process and understanding when you get started, even if your marriage is intact. So some of the things you can be thinking about are how you're going to be paid, what's going to be running through the business. I would say from a business attorney perspective, and I did that for a few years before I became a family law attorney. The kind of business you choose, whether it's S Corp or, I say, a corporation with a subchapter S tax filing or an LLC or if you're going to stay a sole prop, how you structure it is probably not going to have a big impact on what happens when you separate and divorce. 

It is not going to shield you, the human, from whatever exists from a valuation perspective. So a lot of times they'll say, well, the business is only in my name. Well, you need to check with your lawyer and see what that means. Because Just because an asset is only in one person's name does not mean it's not part of the pot of things that would be divided in the event of a separation and divorce. 

Sure. Okay. 

I know that was a lot. 

No, it's good. Does the same thing apply with a co founder compared to a marriage? Is it the same kind of ruling or how does that work? 

Well, first, make sure that your organizational documents have some provision in there on what would work. Like, what happens if one person wants out. And a lot of times there will be some optional or mandatory triggers of dissolution or valuation in the event one person wants to get out. A lot of that stuff is trumped when people are separated, get separated and divorced, because the valuation process might be different. And if it's a closely held company, there are all these things to consider. So if you're married or you're going to be married and you're starting a business, you need to meet with a lawyer, not because you think your marriage is going to fail, but because the only thing you can control is you. And you can't control your partner, you can't control your spouse. There are all these unknowns. 

And so I always say, when we're talking about contracts between spouses, contracts like prenuptial agreements, we are so prepared, like I said, from education perspective, for all these other things in life, we get insurance in the event we get in a car accident, life insurance in the event of death or disability, but we have no insurance when it comes to this issue. We have no plan in place, and so there's just no reason that we shouldn't have. What is the good reason? I mean, I'd ask you, what is the reason that we wouldn't have a plan in place in the event someone decides they don't want to be in your life anymore? 

And I guess the simple crappy answer is, just because it's an awkward conversation and people don't think it's going to happen to them, right? Probably some variation of that. Is that fair to say? 

It's absolutely fair to say. And so my response to that is. So don't sign anything, but have the hard conversation now so you at least have an idea. If you can't have that hard conversation, you might not want to get married because you are going to be in a partnership. I tell a teenager, I think this is okay to say, I just pause because you need to take it out. But if you are not comfortable walking into a drugstore and getting a condom, then you are not old enough to be having sex. So if you aren't comfortable having those hard conversations with the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with, then you might want to pause before you get married and see what that feels like to have the hard conversation. 

I don't care whether you sign a contract with that person or that you protect your business. That is your decision. You get to control it. You are responsible for you. But if you're not okay having that conversation with your partner, then it might be an opportunity for some growth now instead of having to have the conversation when there's conflict between you. 

Yeah, that's actually really good advice. It's interesting how many people, even just in my immediate friend group, didn't have conversations about maybe not business related, just like those hard conversations, even related to kids or who's going to stay home or were we both working? And I was kind of like, really? You didn't have that conversation? It surprises me and you'd probably see it all the time where people don't have these conversations. So do you have any advice on how to maybe go about bringing that up that you've seen people do? Because I don't know. I had the conversations, right. 

So I guess it's like in the book, I admit that I was not comfortable having the conversation when I got married, and it did not fare well for me. I didn't know how to have the conversation before I got married, and it did not get any easier during my marriage for me. So one of the things that I tell my clients and business owners and those people that I meet with, and even my friends, too, I'm with you, is if you're uncomfortable, you have to learn the language. You have to first figure out why you're uncomfortable. Right? Just like when you were trying to get over public speaking. This is the task. This is my objective. My objective is to have a good, hard conversation. So how do we have hard conversations? There's great resources online. 

There are also bringing in a neutral third party. So good writing down all of your questions or all of the ways that you feel and then handing it to your partner and getting their list. I know that sounds really simple and maybe overly simple, but what it does is we need a starting point. We need to identify three or four things that we are really uncomfortable, and we need to figure out what we're going to do to connect, how we're going to. And when it gets uncomfortable, you also need a way to stop the conversation, to put it on pause, to regroup, to process. And maybe that means you have a safe word. 

Yeah. Okay, interesting. So I want to dive a bit deeper into the book. You kind of mentioned the title, but what's it called, what's it about, and what type of stuff is in there? 

So the title of the book is, please don't say you're sorry. 

Okay. 

And the subtitle is an empowering perspective on marriage, separation and divorce from a marriage loving divorce attorney. Okay, interesting, because I am a marriage loving divorce attorney. I love relationships, commitments, partnerships, growing together in really positive ways, and knowing when you can't. Like I said, I've been a divorce attorney for, I mean, I'm 23 years of practicing law, and I'm really passionate about family law. So just from making sure we're speaking in the same language, depending on where you are, people call it family law. They call it domestic law, they call it divorce. Being a divorce attorney, they are all the same thing. 

Okay, good. 

Really, the issues that we're talking, because a lot of times when you say family law, people think you're like a general lawyer, like you help families. But really, what we're talking about when we talk about family law is anything related to before, during, after marriage and kids. 

Okay. 

Prenups, postnups, domestic violence issues, custody support, alimony, how we divide our stuff. And then if there is going to be a divorce and those laws are going to be different in every state, but there is some common denominators, and the common denominators are those issues that I just talked about. 

Okay. 

So I wrote the book when I realized that I've always known that I was a marriage loving divorce attorney, but I was the least likely person that I ever thought or that anybody ever thought would get divorced. And here I was after thousands and thousands of consults and running and founding. Is that the right word? Starting this law firm and being, it being the whole practice of family law, being such a big part of my life. When I was going through the process, I realized that there were all these things my clients weren't telling me, and there were all these things that I could have or should have or wished I had told my. Then before the book was released, I met a human. And then after the book was released, we got married. 

So then I got to see his perspective from a client perspective, Mina being the client, but what his expectations were along the way and how the communication and who you pick for your lawyer. And there are all these things that are just not clear to a lot of people when they're going through the process. The book is kind of funny. I wanted a book that when you got on a plane, that by the time you got off the plane, you were kind of finished with it. 

Okay. 

I didn't want it to be super complicated and be too lawyerly because I'm a pretty casual, I like to think funny sometimes person at the end of each chapter. It's got some tough questions, some things for you to think about. And we've actually recently, like, coming out this summer, I'd heard that the book had been turned into programs and sort of people are work booking it and workshop. Yeah, I was so happy to hear that and got great feedback online on that. And so we just created, and I'm literally picking up the second round tomorrow of the draft of a journal and workbook for. Sorry. So I'm excited about that, to see that sort of next stage of what happens with it. The book is divided into three parts. We like things in threes, right? 

Sure. 

The first part is about marriage, the second part is about separation, and the third part is about divorce. 

Okay, so you kind of mentioned a few minutes ago about things that you didn't know and that your clients weren't telling you. Can you give us some examples in those three different verticals that you just outlined? 

Right. All right, well, can I give you my kind of sappy mom parent example? 

Sure. 

Okay. From a sappy mom parent example, I have three boys. They're all athletes. And we talk about parenting schedules. A parenting schedule is the same thing as custody. A long time ago, we called it visitation. So I'm going to call it parenting schedule because that's my preferred language. We work with our clients all the time on coming up with a parenting schedule that works, but not once in two decades had a client shared with me. What happens when you're on the field and your kids leave with another family? I know that seems not terribly complex, but that is an experience that you don't forget. I've seen tears over missing certain holidays or having to share certain holidays or birthdays or whatever it is that I expected and worked through. 

But that moment on the field when you're by yourself and your kids leave with another family not shared with me. I will tell you another story. It's really easy to put your head in the sand depending on what your roles are in your marriage. 

Okay. 

And so even business owner running the law firm. My role in my marriage was not to handle our family finances. And so often the person whose job is not to handle family finances doesn't really have username access, isn't looking at bank statements every month, doesn't know where to look. And it's really easy to put your head in the sand. And there are lots of very humbling. I use the word embarrassing moments for clients who come in and they say, I'm so embarrassed, but I don't even sign our tax returns. He or she handles all of that well. I was really in that same boat. Yes, I signed my tax returns. No, I didn't know what they said. I mean, not really. Right. I didn't know where all of our bank accounts were. 

And I talk about this moment in the book where I went into a bank, and I know that your listeners can't see me, but I have paid for blonde hair, right. 

Okay. 

I'm, like, flaunting. I walk in with my blonde hair, tassels and everything, and I asked the banker, I think we have a bank account here. My husband's traveling. And thank goodness that she was kind and turned the screen on her computer around and showed me bank accounts that I didn't know about. And it turned out that some money had been moved from a bank account. Now, it doesn't matter whether it was $2, $2,000, or $20,000. The reality is I had no idea. I didn't know that was there, that there was money moving. That was another sort of wow moment or aha moment, I guess I could say, of not really thinking through what you know to be true. Right. So those are two. 

No, I think that's actually really good advice, because the reality is a lot of people listening to this show will be kind of business owners or entrepreneurs or they're busy. Right? Like, we're all busy. When somebody's like, oh, I'm too busy, it's like, we're all busy. Right. I think we can establish that now, especially if you have a family and there's activities and you're balancing all this stuff. But it's so important to be kind of on top of it, right? As much as you can because it's really easy to lose track of something and then getting back on top of it is really hard. 

In my speaking circuit, I actually have a little sample family outline for family meeting with kits. So from a business owner perspective, we all have our PNLs and our balance sheets. Not a lot of us have that for home. And so I had one of the CEOs that was in the room one day, and he was like, why would I need a balance sheet for my home? And I was like, well, that's your marital estate. If something is happening, if it's out of sorts at work, you're looking at those balance sheets and PNLs and trying to figure out what happened. What expense did I have last month that I can't remember? That changed my net number? We're not doing that for our home accounts. So if you don't have your eyes on it, then what are the conversations about? 

Hey, camp is next summer and it's going to be really expensive. Or let's say that your partner wants to go back to school or your partner wants to move into a bigger house. There's just no reason that we shouldn't be having these conversations on a monthly basis with our partners and with our kids. And we should be talking about the hard stuff so that we're on the same page, so that if somebody does have a goal in mind, that they are communicating about it. Because really, the communication is where things start to fall apart and resentment builds. And resentment is like death to a relationship. But also, most of the time when people get to the point where they're like, oh, yeah, that's a really good idea, we should start that. Too much time has passed, like you said, right? A lot of times. 

I guess my point is don't wait until things are broken, right. Because they might not be repairable, if you will, if you wait until things are broken, that's like if somebody says, hey, can we go to marriage counseling? Don't wait for them to ask you a second time. You go the first time. 

I see. Yeah, it makes sense. So what other things should you cover with your spouse in these monthly meetings? And then what should you cover with your kids around as well? 

Right. So the kids is going to be age appropriate. Sure. There are some things, obviously, that you don't want to cover, but there are lots of life skills and life lessons that I have on my list of things to cover with kids along the way, but with your spousE. Some of the things that I have on my sample is when people separate. Obviously, the financial piece is really difficult, and it's even more difficult if there's a big disparity between incomes or if one person is a stay at home. What really that means is, and one of the questions I ask when I'm at speaking engagements is, do you know how much money you spend on average every month in your household? 

And most of the time people have no idea, or there's a credit card that somebody has that, well, that's their credit card, and I don't really pay attention to it. Well, that doesn't mean you're not responsible for it in the event of a divorce. Right. My speaking to you is like to let's talk about what expenses there are, what you're putting away in savings. And so we're really talking about budgets because in the event a separation did happen, financial leverage, when you're negotiating, is not where you want to be. That is not where you want to be spending your time in trying to figure out how you're going to pay your bills when you are in what I call the divorce fog. 

So you're going into it open eyed, wide eyed, setting a date for when you're going to meet annually with your financial planner or somebody to make sure your estate plan docs are up to date, but also like fun stuff like bucket list items and scheduling date nights. I'm in an advisory group with 16 business owners, and they're all men except for two. And it cracks me up how hard it sounds for someone to schedule a date with their partner. 

Yeah, fair. Okay. 

It's so hard about this. People put it on the calendar and make a reservation on open table. You can do it when you're sitting on the toilet. It has become that easy to make dates. Sure. Sorry. We bring Instagram and open table to the bathroom with us. 

No, it's fair. Yeah, no, it's good. It's interesting. So I'm curious, you mentioned your speaking engagements. Let's dive a little bit deeper into that. What types of stuff do you usually cover? And who's usually your typical audience or clients for that? 

Well, so far my audience has been. They have been business owners and entrepreneurs. And for as long as I've been doing speaking engagements, that's really, I focus on the basics of if you don't think your marriage is going to survive, then what separation and divorce could look like, what you're in control of, and what you need to let go of. And I really don't like surprises. And when you own a business, you don't want blind spots. So covering your blind spots to the extent you can, that's really been the basis of what I want people to understand. But I'd say the pushback is when there's somebody who says, well, this doesn't apply to me. And I say, amen, sister, brother, whoever you are, I hope it never applies to you. 

But there is somebody you know that it's going to apply to, whether it's your kid who's getting married, your sister, brother or parent, somebody at work. How about one of your employees? You're going to get a question from an employee that says, hey, I know I'm up for a raise, but could you defer that another year? Why is that? And then you find out it's because they're getting separated or whatever. The financial piece can be very challenging, but it's just a different lens to consider. And my best day is the day that I keep someone married. And that may because I scare them into it, because they aren't prepared or because they think the grass is greener and it's just not. 

No, exactly. And I think that's partly why I wanted you on the show, is because normally I cover, like, tech stuff. Right. But I think this is so important to at least think about the whole picture because the reality is, arguably, you're trying to do all this stuff to prevent the worst outcome, right? But you need to do all this stuff. And you've mentioned a few times, we do all this stuff in business, but we don't do all this stuff kind of personally or not always. Right. And so it's interesting how they're almost the same thing, but they're completely different verticals and they're completely different from each other. 

Well, I mean, let's talk about tech stuff. Because when email and text message became the best way for us to communicate, our court system was flooded with exhibits of emails and text messages and the direct messages, the DMS, on the backside of all the social media. I mean, in our discovery in litigation, even when you don't think you're going to end up in the courtroom, you will get asked to print some discovery instructions. Even they give you the instructions on how to access the thing that they want. That's on social media. Okay, so. Isn't that right? Do you know what I mean? Like, it'll say, please produce all Facebook DM messenger content. The following are instructions on how to access that content for download and transfer. I will call this my tech segment. I will caution you that nothing is confidential. Nothing is confidential. 

And with the addition of being able to edit text messages, it doesn't make it much easier. There is software out there that you can move the text messages onto your hard drive and use it as evidence in a case. But I will warn you that there is nothing confidential except that between you and your lawyer. And I would say even though you've got HIPAA privileges, when they enter the information into their system and a court and someone has alleged your fitness as a parent, there is a possibility that those medical records that got entered that you thought were protected by HIPAA might be seen by a judge before if there's a high conflict custody dispute. So the only thing, your lawyer cannot communicate anything unless you're going to kill yourself or you threaten to kill someone else. 

That's sort of my paraphrasing of our ethics. So text messages with your partner, emails, anything online that you see is not confidential recordings. You need to check your state and see if it's illegal to record a conversation if you're not a part of it. We call it a one consent state. So if you're in a one consent state, so oftentimes I'll have a consult and the client will come in and tHey'll say, oh, that person, they're going to be so charming on the witness stand. And for whatever reason, the word charming always is like the word that comes so weird. They're going to be so charming on the witness stand. And then as soon as I hear the recording, I'm like, oh, no, that's who that person, North Carolina is, where I'm usually in litigation is going to be. 

That's my one party consent state. So knowing what those rules are, also turning off your iCloud and your backup, or knowing who has access to your iCloud and your backups, that's going to be really important. I've had clients who have sent messages on iMessage and it went to the wrong person's device in the family. 

Right. 

And so what a disaster. That was the picture that you use on social media when you think that nobody's going to know that's. You don't do that. Interesting. Yes. Body parts are being used because they don't think they'll ever be recognized as their little image. 

Right? Yeah. 

What is that? 

The little Avatar? 

Yeah, your avatar. Don't be cute. The other thing is what? You name the other person in your phone, your contact. So we used to joke that when you were single and there's like an ex girlfriend or ex boyfriend, somebody that calls you instead of putting their name in, you put, do not answer. Right. So don't put Satan or stepmother if your children can read or even if they can't, because that screenshot happens and you need it as evidence in the courtroom. And at the top it says evil stepmother or Satan or whatever bad word you want to use, what you call the other person. Yeah, don't do that. 

Yeah. Interesting. It's good advice, but it's stuff people never think about. Right. Or like where it could go, I guess. 

Yes. They don't think they're going to be at that dinner party with me. And I'm going to say, what are you going to do if your partner comes in and decides they want me married to you anymore? 

Yes. Interesting. So I'm curious, what other advice would you give to people? Because we're kind of coming to the end of the show that you've maybe learned along the way that you would like to pass along or what about something? Because obviously you went through it, getting through it. And as a business owner, how did you deal with that personal side of it while still running your business? Because dealing with just running a business can be stressful. Dealing with that as well. How did you kind of get through that or advice to get the other side and keep your business and grow your business while that's all happening? 

So two pieces of advice. One is on the personal side, is the divorce fog is real. There are days you will not remember. There are moments you will not eat. There is something very heavy happening. And I would tell you to give yourself a day off. A day off from thinking about it, a day off from feeling about it. And if that means you go sit in a movie theater all day by yourself just to be distracted, that's what it is. It doesn't have to be some fancy go getaway spa treatment or play golf all day and numb yourself. But giving yourself a break is going to be really important along the way for your business owner listeners, for your entrepreneurs. Have your team of support around. You know who they are today. 

Don't wait until something, because we're talking about if you are going to be separated and divorced, as a business owner especially. But for anyone, it will feel a little trauma. It's drama. It's a very big change for most people. And so identifying that support system in advance and knowing that they got your back when it happens, and that means knowing who your financial planner is going to be, knowing who your lawyer, what lawyer you would want. Not all lawyers are the same. We are not all the same, despite the stereotypes. So knowing who you'd want paying attention to it along the way, having a counselor or a therapist there to help you navigate through the things that you're probably not used to talking about with anyone. 

Sure. 

And that support system is going to be really big because it may be that your friends might not be the same friends for a minute because you're going to be going through some stuff. And so I think those two things are really important. Yeah, I want to say it again, because my mission, I think, is to make sure that people are educated and to, hate to use the word mission, but to make sure people are educated, but also to the extent we can resolve conflict before conflict happens, that's where we should be spending our energy. So spending time getting educated before you make the decisions the same way we do it with everything else, it might feel uncomfortable, but in that uncomfort is like, that's where the growth is. So do that. 

No, I think that's really good advice and, well, just a lot of entrepreneurs listening. That's our whole day is basically being uncomfortable. Different things, right? Yeah, it's interesting. No, I think that's actually really good advice. But how about we close the show with mentioning where people can get more information about yourself, the book you're speaking, and any other links you want to mention. 

Everything about the book you can find on any of the social media handles, which are all Nicolesidoma, including the website nicolesadoma.com. N-I-C-O-L-E. Sidoma is S-O-D-O-M-A like Sonoma, but with a D. So Nicolesadoma.com and I look forward to hearing from you, and I can't wait to share the workbook when it comes out. And thanks for having me. 

Yeah, well, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day, and I look forward to keeping in touch with you and have a good rest of one. 

Thanks. You too. 

Okay, bye. 

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