Ep. 538 w/ Scott Miller Author of Media Matters
Kevin Horek: Welcome back to the show.
Today we have Scott Miller.
He's the author of Media Matters.
Scott, welcome back to the show.
Scott Miller: Kevin.
Glad to be with you.
Thank you.
Kevin Horek: Yeah, I'm excited
to have you on the show today.
I, I think what you wrote media
matters about, well, let's be honest.
Every startup and or.
Struggles with this, no matter if
it's day one or you know, they've
been around for decades in my opinion.
But maybe before we get into all
that stuff, let's get to know you a
little bit better and start off with
where
Scott Miller: you grew up.
Yeah, so I, I grew up in the Texas area.
I grew up actually in, uh, Waco,
Waco, Texas, and that might be a
city that people are familiar with.
Um, most notably or most recently,
uh, from the fame, uh, the Fixer
upper cable TV show is, uh,
shot in my hometown of Waco.
Oh, cool.
Very cool,
Kevin Horek: man.
So you went to university.
What did you take and why?
Scott Miller: So I, I went to,
uh, a small college, uh, in
Texas, Howard Payne University.
Okay.
I studied a, I studied communications.
Um, I knew in high school that
I wanted to get into media.
And honestly, Kevin, it started
off with an interest in sports.
Initially I realized that, um, I grew
up in the shadows of Baylor University.
Didn't go to Baylor, but I realized
that, uh, the guy who got to broadcast
the games got paid to go to the games.
And I thought, that sounds like a fun job.
But I chose, I chose my college,
uh, cause small community.
So I was able to really launch into
working in a radio station day one,
because it was a smaller community.
So when I graduated, took me five
years working full-time, but I, I
graduated with five years experience
and a degree, so it worked out well.
Very cool.
Kevin Horek: So walk
us through your career.
Maybe some highlights along the way up
into coming up with the idea for the
book, and then let's dive into that.
Scott Miller: Yeah, sure.
Um, so, you know, as I mentioned,
sports was my interest.
I did do sports, uh, for a while,
um, covering high school sports,
some college, doing play by play,
uh, but started off on air, uh, dj,
uh, working at a country station.
Worked into my way into being
the news director, um, at the
same station covering local news.
So I was, news and sports director
won a couple of AP awards that got
the attention of a station in the
Dallas Fort Worth, uh, larger market.
They hired me to come on and be
the news director and, and sort
of build up their news team.
Um, got into morning news
on the faith-based side.
I worked for a, uh, a Christian
station in the Metroplex and,
um, sort of a series of events.
Um, got offered an
opportunity in my twenties.
It really was opportunity of a
lifetime, building a a Christian talk
station for Sirius Satellite Radio,
and this is when Sirius was brand.
Right.
And they had just signed on Howard Stern
and this is before they merged with
xm and that sort of thrashed me on the
national side, on the programming side.
Uh, the company I work for,
they also had a TV network and
I did a lot of program sales.
And they, they saw what I was able to
do on the radio side and they asked
me if I could do the same on the TV
side, which got me into television.
Um, and my career discontinued to advance.
Um, I spent a decade, uh, building
a company, uh, center post media.
We had a biz tv, biz talk radio.
And really focusing on entrepreneurship.
And out of that, you know, when you
ran a for run a format like Biz tv,
you're sort of front and center.
You're meeting entrepreneurs,
you're starting to understand
what their needs are.
I created a content marketing agency to
really help them market their business.
But Kevin, when I, what I learned and, and
sort of the catalyst of why I, I started
the book or read or wrote the book, was I.
How, how much education was
lacking in most entrepreneurs.
They, they knew they needed
to market their business.
They just didn't know where to begin,
or they didn't understand, you know,
things like, what do ratings mean?
And so I just felt like, as
someone who enjoys writing, I felt
like I needed to write a book.
And that's really what it is, is an
education where if you wanna spend
marketing dollars, spend them wisely.
And that's, and that's why
I wrote, uh, media Matters.
Kevin Horek: No.
Very cool.
So let's dive a little bit into
what exactly do you cover in the
book, and obviously I, I think it's
super important, and you're right.
I think as somebody that's, you know,
working on startup, it's such a daunting
thing and it's very easy to either
not know where to start or basically,
you know, Thousands, if not tens of
thousands of dollars with sometimes
really good results, sometimes not.
So good results and kind
of everywhere in between.
Scott Miller: Well, there's so many
people out there, unfortunately, that
are happy to take your money, that don't
really care whether or not you get good
results, and I think that's where so
many business leaders, uh, struggle.
The other thing is, let's be honest, you
know, marketing dollars is usually the
first thing that people will cut in a
budget or the last thing they'll, they'll
spend, you know, if you're starting a
business, you have to spend money on.
Whatever it is.
You know, in the tech world, you have
to spend money on the technology,
the development of the technology.
If you do have a brick and
mortar, you have to pay your
rent and your electricity bill.
If you have staff, you
need to pay their salaries.
So marketing is always one of those things
that people are like, oh, I gotta cut.
You know, inflation's
going on, money's tight.
I'll just cut my market.
Well, what they don't understand is you're
really cutting off future cells and so
you know, I, as far as what I cover in the
book, the first thing is to understand.
That media is dramatically changing.
You know, you talk a lot about technology.
I mean, media's been in a hurricane of
changes over just the last five years.
Sure.
And so I think, you know, the first
part of the book is just helping you
understand why it's changing and, and how
you can take advantage of those changes.
Right.
Kevin Horek: Okay.
So why does it matter?
Because obviously we know that everybody
and their dog has a podcast these days,
and I, I don't mean that in a bad way.
I think it's actually really good and
it's really helped a lot of people.
But I know based on the people I've
talked to and even my own show numbers,
Like I, it's not even worth me doing
this show if it was just a podcast
because the traditional media, like A
M F M radio and the cable TV networks,
I'm on blow the numbers, the podcast
numbers outta the water, and obviously
like I'm not Oprah or any of the top
podcasters, and their numbers would be.
Probably way better, obviously,
like way better than even
any, all my stuff combined.
But I think people think they're
gonna start a podcast and get,
you know, a million listens.
And that's obviously attainable at
some point, but it's a huge amount
of time and effort where majority
of people's numbers are in, you
know, double digits per episode.
Maybe, you know, in the hundreds,
maybe you get lucky and one of your
episodes takes off and it does maybe
a few thousand listens or beyond that.
That's kind of the reality.
Do you agree with that?
Or, or, or what are your
thoughts around that?
Scott Miller: I do agree with it.
You know, there's more content available
today than in the history of content.
You know, I spend more time, you
know, you mentioned the podcast,
but I spend more time at home trying
to figure out what I'm gonna watch
than actually consuming something.
Right?
I got so many different apps.
Um, so yeah, you know, the, the
content marketing, uh, side of things.
Why create a podcast?
And so if I, if I'm advising you, the
first thing I'm gonna do, of course every
situation's different is learn what your
business is, learn what's best for you.
But, but you're right, podcasting is, is
never about monetizing off of the podcast
itself because it's lightening the bottle.
There are some mm-hmm.
Very popular podcasts.
They're making a lot of money
off of programmatic advertising.
But for the majority of.
It's really about, uh, creating
content that does two things.
One, it gets you direct results.
So when people tune in and listen to
your show Kevin, and understand what
it is you do very quickly they realize
that you are an expert in your field.
And so you will have the direct
results of people reaching out
saying, I, I wanna work with you.
Um, and then you have
the indirect results.
I like to kind of call it the
cocktail napkin approach to marketing.
Okay.
And what I mean by that is,
you know, you're at a party and
somebody asks you what you do.
You're not just the guy
who understands technology.
You're the guy that has a podcast on it.
And there's something very powerful
about media that you can use that
so you can make money off of.
But you gotta look at it differently.
And, and then the third thing is you can
use this pod, and Kevin, you understand
this, but you can use this podcast to
invite the people you want to reach.
You know, it's like, Hey, will you
come and, and talk to me in a podcast?
Oh, well that sounds cool.
Sure, I'll do that.
Where otherwise, if you're trying to
reach out and just do a cold call.
They probably, you know, may not
talk to you or may take a long time
before you get on their calendar.
Kevin Horek: Well, even you and I,
let's, perfect example is the chances
of the two of us ever meeting or
talking are pretty slim, just by chance.
Unless maybe we're at a
conference or something, whatever.
Right?
But without this show, you and I
probably wouldn't have ever connected.
Unless it was just kind of,
maybe by fluke luck, right?
And like that's the perfect example.
And I have, and I, I don't mean this
as to brag, but it's like, I've done
this, I have 500 plus episodes, right?
So think about how big that network is.
I've had some of those people
back on the show a few times.
I've been able to connect
with people that have.
Amazing things where I probably would've
never been able to exchange emails
with them or they would've deleted my
email, but you know, I got to talk to
them for an hour on it, on the show.
Right.
Which has been amazing, and I've said
this a million times, but just so
for your context, it's like I started
this show really to get over my fear
of public speaking and it's been, you
know, seven plus years at this point.
So, To your point is I do the show
for other reasons other than trying to
like make a ton of money being a radio.
Scott Miller: And, and often you'll,
you'll find that people will give you
personal contact information, uh, when
you, when you attach content to it.
So not only are you making these
connections, having these hour long
conversation, but all of a sudden
they're giving you, yeah, here's
my cell phone number, here's my,
you know, it's a hundred percent.
It's just a power, power of
media and it really does work.
And, and the brilliance of what you do.
If I can brag on you is when you bring
a host on or you bring a guest on and
you make it about them asking them
questions, it just puts 'em at ease
and you build that relationship faster.
Kevin Horek: A hundred percent agree.
So I'm curious then how do, maybe let's
give examples, um, For of the different
types of media and how people can
actually, you know, leverage the content
in the book to actually, you know, get on
different shows or start being successful
at social media and et cetera, et cetera.
Scott Miller: Yeah, so one of the
things I, I, I do, because there is
so many different types of media,
is I actually break it down by
chapter on the different forms.
So, uh, you know, we were talking
about audio media just now and that
really kind of covers podcasting or,
you know, radio still very much alive.
People still listen to traditional
radio and so we kind of give
examples in that regard.
But written media is another, um, example.
Um, sort of the low hanging
fruit is to write a weekly.
Sure.
Write what you know, write about the
information, you know, because it does
two things and not only, uh, you can use
it, you can push it out on social media.
You can get an email, uh, client and
push it out, you know, through MailChimp
or, or one of those types of services.
But it's also great for your website.
You know, Google, we all know Google's
still the king of the internet right now.
You know, they're looking for
search engine optimization.
They're looking for you
to have fresh content.
And, and by the way, you can use
your podcast to do the same, uh, post
into your website and doing video.
But, but you know, that's a written form.
So you, you know, the book
in itself is a former content
marketing, you know, just like.
I'm on your show cuz you have a podcast.
You're interviewing me because I
have a book, you know, so Yeah.
Yeah.
Hundred percent.
It does.
Open windows.
Yeah.
So, so that's another form.
Um, and so we talk about that, uh, and
the video side of it as well, you know,
uh, creating video, uh, so many studies
out there now that if you don't have video
on your website, you're losing business.
88% of people that watch a video
are more likely to make a purchase
from you after watching a video.
So we kind of go into that.
And so there are different examples,
but if, if I can, I'll just say
one thing and we're talking about
podcasting and, and different forms.
Sure.
You have informative, which is
what, what you and I are doing.
It's very informative.
People listen to it.
They're gonna walk away with a nugget,
something that they can put into practice
and use, and then you have entertainment.
So in the book I talk an example
of my friend Gary Leland.
Kevin, I don't know if you
know Gary, but he is one of the
founders of the podcast movement,
largest convention of podcasters.
Sure.
And what I love about Gary is
he's not a trained broadcaster.
He didn't, he wasn't like me.
He didn't go to college
to learn communications.
Uh, he's a business guy and for the
longest time, he and his wife own a
wallpaper business, um, selling wallpaper.
Now, what kind of a podcast would you
put together to promote wallpaper?
Right.
I mean, what, well, I mentioned my
hometown of Waco and, and Chip and Joanne.
Well, they actually created a podcast.
Based on Fixer Upper, so that each
week they talked about the most recent
episode of Fixer Upper, and they drew
in thousands of fans that love the show,
that wanted to talk about it and listen
to it, which by the way, was brought
to you by Leland's wallpaper, so you
can do an entertainment type content
and then sponsor it with your business.
Got it.
Kevin Horek: No, that's
actually really good advice.
So h I know, and it's getting a lot easier
with, you know, Grammarly and Chad, g p t
and a bunch of other AI writing content.
But I find as somebody that's struggled
with writing myself, I'm, I don't
think I'm a very good writer period.
Ever.
Never have, probably never will be.
I've, you know, leveraged
some of these tools when I've
needed to, to do that, but I.
Sure you can get ideas, but it's
really hard sometimes to generate
ideas of what to even write about
or, you know, put out there.
So how do you, or what advice do you give
to people that are struggling with that?
Because I think everybody does,
does no matter what type of business
Scott Miller: you're in, I
think it's a fair question.
I I would always start with, uh,
just a reminder, you are the expert
in your field and you don't need a
blog or a podcast to be the expert.
All, all these different platforms
do is, is really shine a light
on what is already a reality.
So when you write, you really
want to write on what you're
comfortable with and what you.
Okay.
Um, and, and right in a way that
just, you know, if, if you were
to go sit down and talk about your
business or talk about part of your
industry or go on a sales call, you
naturally start to just talk about.
You know what, you know,
cuz it just comes natural.
I mean, you know it, right?
There's, you don't have to think about it.
And so I encourage, you know, on the
writing part, you know, right from that
perspective, um, you know, certainly
if it's writing something you struggle
with, um, you know, have somebody
proof, proof it before you publish it.
And great news is, there's so many crowd
sourcing, uh, options out there to do.
But you know, it's just
about writing what you know.
And then I always say right from
a, a personal perspective, and
I don't mean like, get personal
in, in your, in your life.
But don't be afraid to just, you
know, write who you are because
people what they want at the end of
the day, from a podcast, from a blog,
from a video more than anything else.
They just want you to be authentic.
They want you to be who you are.
And so I don't think people are
looking for a really polished
blog as much as they are.
What is your perspective on
something and, and what can I learn?
Um, what's gonna cause me to
want to subscribe to that and
come back every single time.
Um, and so that's, and, and then the
final thing really is consistency.
And I think when you talk about
content marketing, whether it's a
podcast or a blog or whatever you
do, do it on a consistent basis.
Don't write a blog once
every now and then.
You're never going to build
the following you want.
So what I did, Kevin, when I wrote a blog,
uh, is I actually put on my calendar.
I blocked off time to write and when
it popped up, that was sort of my
writing time and I often wrote what
was on my mind and, and for me, I use
the blog again of appealing toward
entrepreneurs and business owners.
I try to write on subjects on what you
go through to just kind of relate to you.
So for an example, You know, one
of my blogs I wrote was How to
Stay Motivated on a Monday morning.
You're coming off the weekend and
now you're trying to reengage.
Just some practical things
I do as a business owner to
to get my mind reengaged.
So it wasn't like deep thoughts, it
was just sort of thought provoking.
But I used that to draw in
business owners to our website.
And then we sold our
product and services, right?
Which in our case was marketing, right?
So you can hire ghost writers.
You can't outsource that.
I'm not a fan of that.
I mean, you can do that.
The main thing is if you're going
to hire someone the write for you,
make sure they're speaking, you
know, the way you want them to speak,
make sure they're representing you.
Kevin Horek: No, I think
that's really good advice.
And I, I want to touch on one thing
that I think is super important is
you mentioned that people want it
to be like kind of honest and raw,
and it doesn't have to be polished.
And I would say, That's
been so true for myself.
I've heard the feedback before
that cuz I was kind of early
on in the podcasting space.
Again, I'm not trying to brag, I'm
just trying to tell you like the
real, the reality of it is like
people like that I was like kind of
brutally honest, good, bad or other.
And I wasn't kind of
this like polished host.
Right?
And I wasn't like seventh
night, early episode.
I always tell people
like, go listen to 'em.
They're brutal.
Like, Fair enough.
And, but the reality is, is like if I
could struggle through it, anybody could
struggle through it because I was trying
to get over my fear of public speaking,
especially in the early episodes.
Right?
And so I think, and some of my
favorite podcast episodes are those
early kind of raw episodes where
they're almost like not even edited.
So I think so many people think
that it needs to be this like
perfect, polished thing and spend an
astronomical amount of time trying
to get it there, where obviously it.
I think sometimes it like, it just,
the raw, the better and the more
brutally honest you are, the better.
It sounds
Scott Miller: like you
would agree with that.
Yeah.
Well it's, it's, you know, in the
world of social media when we all.
Tend to gravitate toward putting just
only the good stuff on there, right?
Yeah.
We don't, we're not posting on there about
a horrible day or the stupid thing we did,
and I think people are so tired of that.
Yeah.
And, and listen, you're,
you're never going to compete.
With a major budget.
You know, there's well produced podcast
out there, um, that are coming, but,
but even those like go and look at
what the networks are doing, like NBC's
creating content on, on different shows.
Even those are raw and just sort
of behind the scenes with actors.
So I do think people just.
You know, there's a hunger for
community and, and the other thing about
podcasting, it's such a personal medium.
Mm-hmm.
So television, I have to sit
down, decide what I'm gonna watch.
Typically watching it with the family.
But the podcast I listen to on the way
to work, right on when I'm right, yeah.
By myself.
I'm, I feel like Kevin's
talking to me directly.
And so because of that, having it be
authentic and be who you are, I think
just really resonates with the listener.
And it is what people want.
They wanna learn from you.
And when you can be honest
and talk about your struggles,
it just makes you more human.
Kevin Horek: A hundred percent.
So let's move on to audio.
What advice do you give to that?
Because I think as more and more people
start podcasts, it, it's a bit daunting.
And, and like, what, what, how do
you work with people and what advice
do you have in the book about, you
know, launching a podcast or doing
some sort of audio, uh, thing.
Scott Miller: Well, there are a
lot of resources out there, right?
A lot of platforms you can go to as
far as getting your content published.
But on the audio side, I will tell
you, I, I, I advise you need clean
audio, even if you're creating video.
Like if, even if you're creating a
video, you want, if pe, what's funny
is the video cannot be perfect.
Hundred percent and someone will,
someone will have patience with that.
But if they can't understand
what you're saying, they're gone.
Yeah.
And so you, you need clean audio so you
don't have to spend a, a ton of money.
There's a lot of products out there.
You know, you can invest in a,
if you're just getting started
in a decent microphone, you
could spend 40 or 50 bucks.
A hundred percent.
Um, I've done that before.
I mean, I've got a little
studio where I've spent over
a a hundred bucks for a mic.
So it just depends on what your budget is.
But you need clean audio, as I just
said a while ago, you know, kind of
to, you know, talk to one person.
That's my advice.
You know, I've, in my career, I
have, uh, coached a lot of on-air
talent for television and radio,
and the first thing I tell anyone
on radio is talk to one person.
And, and then when you get into
actually publishing, go ahead Kevin.
Sorry.
No, I was just, sorry.
Kevin Horek: I want to interrupt you.
There I is.
When you say talk to one person,
What exactly do you mean by that?
Like if there's a panel of a few
people, just like talk to each person
after they answer, ask you a question,
or what do you mean by that exactly?
Scott Miller: Yeah,
that's a great question.
So if, if you are, um, doing a, a podcast
and you're just by yourself, let's,
we'll, we'll get to the interviewer
in just a moment, but let's just
say you're gonna do a podcast when
you're talking, visualize that you're
talking to one person versus a room of.
Got it.
And so that makes it, it's just
a psych, it just, it just does a
little nuance where if I'm listening
to you, it, it really comes across
like you're talking just to me.
Okay.
And then in the interview situation,
you almost want to visualize like
one person is in the room eavesdrop.
And think about like if you're at a
restaurant and you got someone and you're
having a conversation with a friend and
there's someone next to you at a booth
by themselves and you know, they hear
everything that you're saying, right?
You just know it's, it's
almost like they're ea dropping
in on your conversation.
And the reason why we, we coach talent to
do that is because, The most personal form
of, of media is the audio media, right?
Because most people consume
it just by themselves.
You know, they're in the car by themselves
or they're listening in their headphones.
So that's, that's what I
mean by talk to one person.
If you go on there and you, you kind of
create it like there's a mass amount of
people, it just does, again, you lose some
of that authentic sound to it, and it's
just, uh, it's not, it's just not good.
Kevin Horek: Sure no makes, makes
a hundred percent, uh, sense.
And I think that's actually
really excellent advice.
Uh, let's move on to video because I think
that's a whole other animal and it can be
very challenging and people's nerves and
even the host nerves sometimes, right?
Scott Miller: Sure.
Yeah, the thing with video, uh, I
mean, there are some simple things
from the technical standpoint.
Uh, not to get too nerdy with
you, but you know, uh, when you're
shooting video again, amazing times.
I, I could pick up my smartphone
and get 4K quality video.
It's just, it's ridiculous.
Um, but there's something,
things you want to consider.
Um, You never want to shoot a video
where the light is behind you, so
take time to frame up the shot where
the light is in front of you and.
And you're not having
the glare on the camera.
You know, when you look at how you
dress, uh, solid colors are always
better on, on video versus, um, a
pattern that's real busy and distracting.
Those are some things to think about.
Um, when you create a video for
social media, um, less is more.
Really under two minutes.
But even that's getting faster.
Uh, people's attention
span is just really short.
So you want to create snackable videos
if you're posting 'em on social media.
The other thing you want to consider is
make sure the video is closed caption.
Most people when they're,
uh, scrolling on social media
will have their audio on mute.
You think about if you're on Facebook,
LinkedIn, Twitter, and you're scrolling
through, the video will start to
play, but they don't actually hear it.
So that close caption allows 'em to
read what you're talking about, and
then if they're interested, they'll
click on it and hear the audio.
The other thing you wanna do is
upload again for social media, upload
all of those videos in native form.
Don't link the video to another site.
So one of the biggest mistakes
I see people that are new to the
business is they'll, they'll put
it on YouTube and then they'll
put a link on Facebook to YouTube.
Well, here's the thing, right?
Yeah.
Facebook wants you to stay on
Facebook, so the algorithms are
gonna be more in your favor if you
upload that in the native form.
So upload it right to Facebook.
And then do the same thing on YouTube,
do the same thing on the other platforms.
You're gonna get more results.
You know, for the, for those videos
than you would if you, if you're asking
Facebook to send somebody somewhere else.
Um, if you have a business page, I'll
tell you right now, you need to spend
money to get your video or any content
discovered, because again, once you
declare your business, guess what?
Facebook's a business too,
and they wanna make money.
So you actually get more
results off a personal Facebook
page than you do a business.
Um, but you don't spend a lot of money
if you are gonna market it on Facebook.
I can go on in, in details on, on tips
on that, but, but just overall in video,
clean video, clean audio, and close
captioning and uploaded native form.
Sure.
The,
Kevin Horek: the other, I want to add
one thing cuz it burnt me recently and
I should have caught it, is if you use
a ring light and you're recording video,
sometimes that ring light gets picked up
in somebody's glasses and it's basically
impossible to edit out without a reshoot
or it's gonna take you a ton of time.
And the only reason I say it is cuz like
I said, it burnt me really like recently
and I was just like, well that was dumb.
Scott Miller: Yeah.
But yeah, I've got, like, if you were
in my office at my house, because
I, I just think about these things.
I have a, I have a light that shines
on me and I've got a, listen, this is
a cheap way to do it, but just a, a
piece of construction paper over it
so that it, it doesn't have the glare
on my glasses cuz I wear glasses, so.
Right.
You know, those are the nuances
you can think about, um,
when you're shooting a video.
Kevin Horek: Nope.
That's good advice.
So I, I want to dive a little bit deeper
into what you just mentioned though,
was spending money on Facebook and you
said you don't need to spend a lot.
What's not a lot.
Scott Miller: So, you know, the
thing about Facebook, and I always
have this disclaimer, social media
websites, all of them constantly
will change your algorithms.
So what is true today?
Uh, will change.
That's kind of my disclaimer, but
one of the things you can do with
Facebook is they're looking for
you to be a preferred advertiser.
And a preferred advertiser is someone
who spends money with them every
single day over a period of 30 days.
Okay.
Kevin Horek: Does that mean pause?
Does the money value not
matter there or It does.
Scott Miller: So it.
Kevin, if I can pause for just a moment,
I, there's a dog mark in the background.
Are you picking that up or are we good?
Uh, we're
Kevin Horek: barely it.
It should be good, but
Scott Miller: I can edit that out.
Okay.
I just wanted to make sure
for answer the question.
So, um, sorry about that.
All good.
Um, okay.
You want me to ask the question again?
Yeah, that'd be great.
Okay,
Kevin Horek: sure.
So when you, you said Facebook, like
how much money were you talking about?
Like, is it, because you know, you
could spend a ton of money there.
So like when you say not a lot of
money, what do you exactly mean by that?
Scott Miller: So I, I've seen a
campaign where we've spent a dollar
a day, just $1 a day on Facebook.
Uh, does it get you a tremendous
amount of, of results to be fair?
But what it does is it puts you
in that category as, okay, you
know, again, it's all computers.
Uh, right.
It gets you in that category of they're
spending, they're spending money with
me, you know, with Facebook every single
day so that your regular posts, the ones.
Boosting sees better results than, than if
you don't spend any money with Facebook.
But, but here's what I
do like about Facebook.
You can get super granular
when you do advertise.
So we had a client one time that was
a wedding chapel in Las Vegas, okay?
And so they're looking for
people that want to fly to Vegas.
And obviously get married
at their wedding chapel.
So we spent on their behalf, we
did a campaign where we chose
cities that had a quick flight.
So we bought Los Angeles, you
know, Dallas, Phoenix, you
know, real close to Vegas.
And we were able to actually,
through Facebook, say, we're
looking for people who were.
Considering getting married,
you know, everything you search
online, Facebook knows, right.
So you can get very targeted with
your digital advertising and spend
and spend your dollars wisely.
Got it.
Okay.
Kevin Horek: What about other social
media and kind of SEO platforms?
What advice do you give to people to
kind of grow your audience, whether
it's a business or startup or,
Scott Miller: or kind of.
Well on the SEO side, you know, search
engine optimization, um, is very key.
And I think what most businesses
don't understand is that
SEO is an ongoing thing.
It's not something hundred percent you do.
Yeah.
And so a lot of people, you know, they'll
build their website, they're like,
oh, I paid for SEO O and no, you gotta
constantly keep that fresh and update it.
And so that's, you know, wanna make
sure you have proper keywords, um,
have links back to your website,
uh, creating fresh content.
Um, tho that's what's
key for, uh, for seo.
Um, on other social media platforms.
A lot of it depends on, you know, what
demographic are you trying to reach.
You know, a lot of what I do is b2b,
so LinkedIn's more important to me.
So if I spend any, any marketing dollars,
it's usually gonna be on, on LinkedIn.
That's gonna be my focus.
Um, Facebook, you know, a lot of
people are like, oh, Facebook's dying.
It's really not.
Facebook's still on the top five,
uh, websites that people go to.
Uh, so they still look
for you, uh, on Facebook.
Um, if I am, you know, more visual in my
product, I might consider in Instagram.
And then if I'm looking to reach a younger
demographic, I'm gonna look at some of
these other, other sites that are out
there, Snapchat, and um, uh, TikTok.
Course this TikTok may not be even
available if you follow the trends.
Mm-hmm.
So, sure.
But they're, there are other, other
sites out there to spend dollars.
Interesting.
Kevin Horek: I, I guess you kind of
need to go where your target market
is because obviously like certain
generations and age ranges are more
on Facebook than others and Instagram,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Right.
Scott Miller: Demographics to me
is, is most important when you're
considering spending marketing dollars.
Um, I think too often we get
caught up in total reach.
Yeah, I'm more interested, I'm more
interested in demographics and results.
So, you know, I use the example, um,
on, this is sort of a traditional
media platform example, but when we
sold Biz tv, it's a very niche format.
It's business content.
I mean, people who are watching biz
TV are interested in business content.
So naturally it's not a large general.
You know, viewership.
But if I'm talking to someone
who say, office supplies and they
ask, well, what's your ratings?
Uh, my response was like, well,
what's more important to you?
How many people see your ad or how
many people respond to your ad?
Yeah, hundred percent.
And I think that's key no
matter what the platform is.
Sure.
Kevin Horek: So do you have advice
to figure out those demographics
and, and where they are?
Whether that's there's free ways
to do that or paid ways to do that?
Scott Miller: Well, the question you
need to ask, uh, when you're, when
you're talking to somebody else's
platform, uh, is ask for that data.
They have it available.
Okay?
Um, whether it's through a rating
services, uh, if it's your own
platform and you want to know
what demographics am I reaching?
Um, the first thing I, I recommend
is you do Google Analytics.
Google Analytics is free to set.
I promise you I'm not
getting endorsed by Google.
It's just the tools that are out there.
So when you set up Google Analytics,
um, what I did, and this is
Kevin, just kind of how I work.
I wanted to understand it.
So I went online and actually
got Google Analytics certified,
which by the way is free.
And they teach you how to do it.
You watch a series of videos and they
show you how to set it up properly,
where you're not tracking the bots,
you're actually only tracking humans.
Once you do that and you track it over
a period of time, you start to learn.
Who's interested in your content,
who's coming to your website.
You can also do on all your social
media platforms, uh, if you get
into the business tools, uh, they'll
show you the demographics as well.
So that's step one.
If, if, you know, So that you understand
who the demographic is you're trying to
reach, and then you can use that data then
go by, you know, if you're buying social
media, you can buy more of the same.
Or if you're buying on somebody
else's platform, whether it's ready
or television, you know, look for the
content that matches that demographic.
Let me give you an example.
If you're looking to reach, you know,
a target audience of men, age 35
to 45, and I'm just making this up.
So if I'm gonna do a traditional
media route, I'm gonna be asking the
salesperson, what shows do you have that
that, you know, matches that demographic.
Let's say they have a hunting show that
matches that, that's good for my product.
I may advertise within that show,
you know, versus, um, you know,
Delton Abbey or some other show that
reaches a di a different demographic.
Kevin Horek: No, that that makes sense.
So I'm curious, can you give, I, and I
know this is kind of a general question,
but the big pushback I've seen, especially
from startups or even businesses that
I've done stuff in the past with, is
they post something on social media.
You know, maybe it's
consistent for a month or two.
And they don't really start seeing some of
those results, like this stuff takes time.
Do you maybe want to talk about some
context around that and, because I find
like a lot of people just give up too
early and too quick because it's not,
you know, getting them a million views
Scott Miller: right out of the gate.
Oh man, they're so true.
You know, marketing is something that's
all about frequency and consistency.
Whatever you do, whether you're
buying traditional media or you're
trying the route of digital or our
social media, we all hear stories
that are the exceptions to the rule.
Right, and I think
that's almost dangerous.
Like you'll hear that one, like the
one person posted video, it blew
up and their business took off.
The reason you're hearing about that
is it's the exception to the rule.
Totally.
You know, if it was normal, it would
be boring, then we wouldn't be talking
about it, and I think that's something
you have to give yourself some.
You know, some understanding, some
flexibility, some patience on that.
So it does take time.
You know, if you're buying traditional
media, I tell people, you need to
buy it at minimum 26 weeks before
you'll start to see results.
Now, think about that for a moment, 26
weeks before you start to see results.
Well, let's, let's unpack that.
Why is that?
Well, national average, the
consumer has to see a commercial.
At minimum seven times, but as mu,
as many as 14 times before they
register what the product's about and
respond, we talked about it already.
We have more content
coming at us all the time.
So if you're watching television and you
see a commercial, you have to see it at
least seven times before you're like,
oh, the product's about this and I'm in.
So you're not gonna see the
spot every single time it airs.
So you have to have a, have a frequency
and consistency with that commercial
spot so that your target, you know,
demographic sees it seven to 14
times before they respond to it.
Same is true with anything you do online.
Like you post a video, you put
it out in social media, did
your target demographic see it?
How long does it have to be
out there before they see it?
And so you do have to think
the long-term game you.
Marketing is really about, uh,
brand awareness, and it takes a
long time to build brand awareness.
Think about this, Kevin.
Why does McDonald's or Coca-Cola
or Ford, or name any large brand,
why are they still spending
millions of dollars every year?
To market their company.
I mean, I don't need McDonald's
commercial to tell me McDonald's
existed exist, but they spend that
money because they understand it's
about consistency and frequency to
keep their business front and center.
Yeah, and memorable, right,
Kevin Horek: is the big thing, right?
It's just cuz there's so much
competition in the fast food space
to use the McDonald's thing, right?
So McDonald's wants to
be the one restaurant.
You think about next time
you want some fast food.
Whether you like McDonald's or
not is kind of irrelevant, right?
Scott Miller: Yeah, and it, and you
know, with, with the large brands, I
will tell you that, uh, it's twofold.
One, it's that sense of urgency.
I'm hungry now and oh man, that McDonald's
burger looks good, I'm gonna go buy it.
And so that's the reason why
they're strategic as far as where
they air, they're advertising.
The second thing just is a little
nuance with the larger brands.
They're really trying to
reach the 18 to 24 year old.
Right.
Um, studies have shown that by time we
reach 25, we're pretty set in our ways.
Um, now I've got two daughters, one who's
18 in college, and another one who's 14.
They're still making decisions, so
even though they're parents, you
know, Use the fast food example,
maybe we do go to McDonald's.
We don't, by the way, not dispute,
but maybe we do, but they, they
want Chick-fil-A and so they're
making that decision themselves.
So that's why a lot of the brand dollar,
you know, dollars are really spent
trying to reach that 18 to 24 year old.
Um, but frequency and consistency
is key across the board.
Uh, no matter.
Kevin Horek: Nope.
Makes some sense.
So I want to talk about
some other mediums.
You cover some of the more traditional
mediums in the book around, um,
newspapers, newsletters, magazines, um,
you know, kind of emails, stuff that I
thinks are forgotten about a little bit
these days when people are trying to
promote their business and or startup.
Do you wanna dive a little bit
deeper into that and why you think
those are still relevant and I.
Scott Miller: You know, one of the,
the biggest, uh, misconceptions is
that certain forms of media are dying.
Media never dies.
It just reinvents itself.
Hundred percent.
Using the newspaper as a perfect
example, you know, people like,
oh, well, newspaper's dead.
Well, no, it's not.
It's just moved over to a digital world.
If you look at the subscriber
count across the board, Yes, daily
newspaper subscriptions that go to
your front door are down weekend,
the Sunday editions are down.
But then when you look at the rise
of digital, there's actually more
subscribers to newspapers today
than there was five years ago.
But people are subscribing
to the digital edition.
So I think that's always my
caution when people are like,
oh, well, newspaper's dead.
And I'm like, no, it's, it's not.
It's just reinvent itself.
Same with radio.
You know, most of the content
people consume on apps.
Are actually radio stations, they're
consuming on their smartphone.
Um, most people when they listen to music
now, certainly you have Spotify, it's
huge, but, but equally as huge is iHeart.
Well, what's iHeart iHeart's
your local radio station.
So when you, uh, open the
iHeart app, you can listen to a
variety of different stations.
So, um, and then television.
And television is, uh, you.
Broadcast TV is big again, which
sounds completely hilarious.
Like I remember 10 years ago when I
started talking about antenna TV again,
people looked at me like I was an idiot.
You know?
They're like, what are you talking about?
Like, we got all these other forms.
But, but what's happened is, you
know, there's been this whole
change in the last 10 years.
I mean, you look at the
cell of antenna, Antenna.
We sold more an, you know, as a consumer,
we purchased more antennas last year
than we have in the last five years.
I mean, it's just continuous to tr And
what's happening is people realize,
like I, I live in the Dallas Fort Worth
area in Texas and I have an antenna now.
I installed an outdoor antenna,
but I get over a hundred channels
for free just through an antenna.
So it's when you think.
Where people are at and how
they're consuming media.
You just need to understand
media's not dying.
It just sort of evolves and changes.
So if you're, you know, it gets
down to where, where are the
demographics you're trying to reach?
And how can you reach them yourselves?
And so I, I, I'm a big proponent
in, in local radio, in, uh, local
television and local newspaper.
I still think they're thriving.
I, I think they're just not the sexy
thing that people wanna talk about.
Kevin Horek: Yeah.
That's interesting, especially if
your target market is consuming that.
Type of, or like your type
of content on their medium.
Does it really matter if it's a hundred
years old or invented yesterday?
Right?
Like who cares if that's where your
Scott Miller: target market is?
Right?
And and it's amazing how many
people of all demographics.
Still listen to radio, to
use radio as an example.
They don't think about, it goes back to
the, it's just not a thought process.
Cuz you get in your car, you turn
it on and you drive the radio's
there, you're not thinking about it.
But people do consume traditional
forms of media all the time.
Kevin Horek: The other thing that I
want your opinion on is, and you've kind
of alluded to this earlier, is because
there's so much choice these days.
It's almost, and I've heard people
say this, is they almost just want
to turn on the radio or a television
station and just tell me what to listen
to or watch because like I'm tired,
I don't want to think about picking
something and spending 20 minutes.
I, I have 20 minutes just I'll watch
whatever's on or I'll listen to whatever's
on because, and it's roughly what I'm
interested in because I'm on this station.
Is that fair to say?
Or what are your thoughts around that?
Scott Miller: No, there's, there's
actual studies that are showing that,
um, people do have decision fatigue.
Decision fatigue is very rural.
You start your day off, you're
fresh, you're ready to go.
Um, it, it's the reason why, um, we all
do well with our diets in the morning,
and then by eight o'clock at night we're
hitting the ice cream in the freezer.
Right?
Yeah.
We're tired of making decisions and, and
that happens true with content as well.
So they're absolutely, you know, um,
I don't have the numbers in front
of me, it's in the book, but it was
something like, it really surprised
me when we started researching on the
number of hours, the average American
watches of live television a week.
I mean, it was, it was up
there and I thought, wow.
And you know, I knew myself.
I did that, but I thought,
well, I'm in media.
I'm, I'm sort of prone to do that.
But, but no, people do exactly
what you're talking about, Kevin.
They get home and they're tired,
they've worked hard, they had
their dinner and they just want to
flip, they just wanna flip through
the channels and find something.
They don't wanna necessarily try to
read the synopsis of, of different
shows and movies and things like that.
Um, during, during the work
week, um, also live sports.
It's still very big, you know,
people watch live sports.
That's still a big, big topic
there, but, um, but yeah, I
think you're exactly right.
People.
Um, and, and going back to
how media reinvents itself, I
consume media through YouTube tv.
It's basically a virtual cable system.
So you could tell me,
oh, I've cut the cord.
I, I can, people are
like, oh, I cut the court.
I don't pay money for cable.
Pay YouTube tv cuz that's
basically a cable system.
It just comes through your internet.
So I think again, media
is, is still there.
Still vibrant, people still consume it.
No, a hundred percent
Kevin Horek: agree.
So we're kind of coming to the end
of the show, but is there any other
advice that you'd want to give to
people that's maybe in the book or
you've experienced, you know, just
for being in the industry for so.
Scott Miller: You know, I think,
um, I think it, you know, just
to kind of highlight what we've
talked about, but really it gets
down to whatever you decide to do.
You need to have a plan in place.
You need to have, uh, frequency and
consistency, and it need to, it needs
to match your overall marketing plan.
One of the things we didn't touch on,
I can add on the social media front.
I, I'm really amazed on how many
people from a business perspective,
they don't have a social media plan.
What I mean social media.
So, you know, you think about how
marketing should work, how marketing
should work is you sit down and you
plan out a calendar for the entire
year on what you're gonna promote.
So if I looked at your p and l, and
let's say you had a widget and it did
really well in the summertime, so then
I would ask you if I'm, if I'm kind of
coaching you, like, okay, where do you
wanna spend your marketing dollars?
Obviously you do well in the summertime.
Do you want to promote that
product to make even more money
to cover the rest of the time?
And then what are you gonna promote in
your off season to really kind of continue
to keep your product front and center?
So you do that on a marketing
standpoint and people spend thousands
of dollars hiring marketing agencies
to do that, but then they don't
do it for their social media.
So you need to plan out your social media.
What am I gonna promote in
January, February, March?
If you plan it out ahead of
time, have a strategy, you can
actually create content around.
And then make sure
everything's consistent.
So if you are spending dollars
on radio and television or
writing a blog, make sure your
social media matches all of that.
I'll leave it with one example and
it's, it's at and t as a brand.
Um, and again, I'm not getting any
kind of endorsement from at and t, but
I use 'em example cuz they, they've
got the traditional brick and mortar
stores, they had advertisement.
They do, they do everything.
So whenever they're running the
campaign, pay close attention.
What you see in their commercials is
gonna be the same thing you hear on
the radio, gonna be the same thing
you see in their digital sites.
And when I walk into
the store, guess what?
They have signage that
matches that campaign.
Now they spend way more dollars than you
and I have to get to that conclusion.
So here's my little secret tip.
This is my secret sauce.
Pay attention to what
the large companies do.
They have market research you don't have,
and then how can you duplicate that with
your own business and learn from it?
Kevin Horek: Oh, I, I think
that's, that's really good advice,
especially in the startup space.
I find so many companies don't do that.
It's like, well, your trade show booth
and your brochure and your business
cards should match the same or have
at least the same look and feel.
Your app and your marketing site.
And I like it sounds to me, it sounds
crazy to say that, but I'm surprised
by how many companies, all those
things look like they're totally
different companies from each other.
So I, I think that's
actually really good advice.
Scott Miller: And, and even down
to your email signature, like I'm
totally working with businesses like,
Hey, you got 25 employees, they all
have different email signatures.
Make that consistent.
You use it for marketing.
Yeah,
Kevin Horek: yeah.
No, a hundred percent.
Well, Scott, sadly, we're outta time.
So how about we close with
mentioning where people can get
more information about yourself, the
book, and any other links you wanna
Scott Miller: mention?
Yeah, so the book's available.
Uh, you can go to media matters
book.com, but I'll tell you, it's
available anywhere you, you buy books
and I'm, I'm happy to say that the.
Audio version as just hit.
So if you are like me and you'd
rather listen to the audiobook, you
can find it on Audibles or wherever
you like to download your audiobook.
And the full title of the book
is Media Matters, how to Leverage
the Media to Grow Your Business.
And if you wanna find me, um, online, I'm
real easy and I got a common name Kevin.
So just Google Scott Miller Media
and you'll find my LinkedIn or Scott
Miller CEO is where you'll find me on
uh, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Kevin Horek: Perfect, Scott.
Well, I really appreciate you taking the
time of your day to be on the show and I
look forward to keeping in touch with you
and have a good rest of your day, man.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Okay, bye
